Courtright
EPISODE 29
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WELCOME TO THE TEAM ROOM! THIS WEEK WE SIT DOWN WITH FORMER PJ LT COURTWRIGHT. HE SHARES HIS JOURNEY, EXPERINCES, AND INVALUABLE ADVICE.
INTRO
Nikki Silva 00:03
You're listening to the ones ready podcast, a team of Air Force Special Operators forged in combat with over 70 years of combined operational experience, as well as a decade of selection instructor experience. If you're tired of settling, and you want to do something you truly believe in, you're in the right place. Now, here's your host PJ team leader, former INDOC instructor supervisor, entrepreneur and physician assistant student Brian Silva.
Brian 00:27
What's happening everybody Brian Silva for the Ones Ready podcast. Thanks again for joining us in the team room. Today we have another special guest for you and we're going to answer a question that we get almost on the daily and that question is, what do you guys do after you're done being a PJ/CCT/SR/TACP, what a guy’s typically end up doing with their lives. And what does it look like to progress through those kinds of phases and stuff. So, we have MSgt John Courtright. He's here to talk to you guys about everything that we've went through. We're in PA school together. So, you know, we went through all those little trials and we're about to graduate. Alright, so John Courtright. Like I said, He's here to talk to you guys about all the stuff that he's gone through and that we're going through right now and the graduation and what he's planning on doing for future so stick around, check that out. But first, I want to thank you guys again for listening to us. Make sure that you like subscribe, go check out on Apple podcast. leave us a review. If you're enjoying the show. If there are things that you guys want us to talk about specifically then go ahead and you can send us email info@onesready.com or you can go down to our website, scroll the bottom and hit us up. So, we always want to hear from you guys, we're here for you. So also, we want to say thank you to Eberlestock, Strike Force Energy and Alpha Brew Coffee Company, you guys can still use a discount code. We're not making any money from any of that stuff. But we want to partner with people that offer you guys good merchandise, good energy drinks and anything like that if you know anybody that wants to be involved and wants to get back to the community, then hit us up. Alright, so let's get into john here. Like I said, we've known each other through PA school set in the back of the classroom, as we were getting droned on lecture after lecture. And then we're kind of finishing up that phase of our life is two and a half years. And prior to that he has a lot of experience in Special Tactics. And he's going to talk a little bit about that. So, John, if you don't mind, just introduce yourself and tell the people out there a little bit about yourself.
Courtright 02:57
Yeah, well, first of all, Congrats Brian. Almost there, like you know the tunnel. So yeah, my name is John Courtright. I've been in the Air Force for close to 18 years. It'll be a hit 18 this summer and been a PJ for most of that time until I started PA school about two and a half years ago. So kind of my path right out of college or right out of high school, I'd say as I went to college and completely different life, studied Japanese wanted to go to Japan and finish college, went to Japan and studied and taught English there for a while for about two years, but I always kind of had in the back of my mind that I wanted to do, you know, something in Special Operations, some kind of commando mission, something like that. And there was some information out there on the internet about you know, what different services have but not a whole lot. But also, always kind of had an interest in medicine. So, pair rescue was kind of at the top of my list for things I want to do. And, you know, I realized that I was like getting a little bit older and I just needed to do it. So, came back to the US...
Aaron 02:59
How old were you talking? Like when you said you were getting a little bit older? Like because we get that question a lot. Like how old is too old? When's your prime? Well, how old were you?
Courtright 04:09
Yeah, so when I came back to the US, I was I just turned 25. And I just happened to come back. Like, I think it was like September 7th, or 8th or something like that. 2001. So I already had an in my mind that like I was coming back to join the military and I've been, you know, training up or whatever information I could find on the internet about joining pararescue. So then, of course, when September 11 happened, I started talking to a recruiter and, you know, probably a lot of people saying in my mind, it was like, Okay, I'm going to go to talk to the recruiter. And they'll be like, Alright, show up on Monday, you're shipping out that I didn't realize it was going to be quite a process to actually join the Air Force and even get a past test set up. I mean, yeah, I'll go talk to the recruiter and be like, Hey, I just, I need to do this test, you know, before I even joined, because at that time, it was called GTEP. I don't know what it's called now, but like, you get a guaranteed spot for training. And they're like, Well, you know, are you sure you can pass it because we don't really, we've had a lot of people show up and want to take the PAST test and they show up and fail it so like, we're not going to waste our time. If you're not positive, you can pass it and then that recruiter couldn't do it. Anyway, long story short, it took a while to set that up and then actually get a date to go so it took probably almost eight months from when I got back. But that whole time I was training to actually go to BMT. So I went to BMT in was it was more than eight months and I think that's So, August 2002, is when I started BMT and then you know six weeks later started in that so through the pipeline, graduate the apprentice course with some other guys you've had on the podcast with McKenzie and some others.
Aaron 06:21
We missed each other by I mean INDOC like we missed each other the first time by about two months and then circle back and found my way back in but it's funny I'm like, man, our timelines are lining up almost completely you were a little bit older. So, but almost exactly the same. And he was like worldly and probably not an emotionally immature douchebag and probably liked by his team. Listen, there's other differences. I'm just saying there are some similarities.
Courtright 07:23
So finished the apprentice course in 2004, December 2004. It's when I graduated. And then my first assignment was the Rescue Squadron in Okinawa, which is my first choice. wanted to give you know, I was fun because I got to get back to Japan and I got married a week now a week after graduation. So, a lot of things happen at the same time I met my wife and Albuquerque while I was there training. So, we moved to Okinawa. I was there for four years. And got like my I got like a pretty good you know kind of textbook dream PJ mission after being there for about a year as a team member just going and picking up a pilot who ejected like check the box for doing the Air Force PJ mission did my first deployment from there to Iraq in 2007.
Aaron 08:39
It's a crazy thing but that's what we always say right like hey, you know you're there like you know pair rescue was there to recover down and injured aircrew and austere and non-permissive environment so that used to be you know, kind of part of that mission statement, but holy cow I can't believe you actually picked up a no kidding pilot. Did he? Was it an ejection? Like he just ejected over the water you guys wouldn't got him?
Courtright 08:57
So, there's one or two F-15 squadrons there. And the I mean this; the pilot is super nice guy. We, you know, stayed close for a while. But basically, he's like, Hey, I can't really talk about what happened but essentially, I was flying along and mechanically everything went wrong and he had about 10 to 15 seconds to make a decision that he was either going to get out or ride this thing into the ocean. So, we got the call load up. My team leader was Mike Flores. You guys don't know that name. He was killed in 2010 in a crash. But yeah, we flew out. And actually, there's a there's like a Japanese Coast Guard is also kind of has some rescue responsibility out there. And it was basically a race to get this guy so there was like already a Japanese helicopter heading there and fortunately our pilot just like, made a beeline for this guy and got us in a position where we can get in the water and, and pull him out and he was great. And then, so that was a Tuesday. And then we got they gave us incentive rides on that Friday, which was awesome to fly an F-15. But the whole time I was like, Wait a second. And they figured out why that last guy was like, is this a problem at all? And then, so yeah, deployed to Balad 2007. And this was before, if guys are familiar with like, some of the MEDEVAC stuff that PJ's got into a little bit later. So for us was a really slow deployment. I think we did two missions that were both recoveries So getting towards the end of that deployment I was kind of thinking like, man, I love this job, but like, there's got to be something that, you know, where I'm busier, I'm doing more stuff. A year later, basically, I assessed and got selected for 724 STG, North Carolina and then we moved there and started the train up there at in they have their own selection process in 2009. And was there until I left for PA school in 2017. So about eight and a half years there in North Carolina. And then yeah, last like Brian said last two and a half years have been first year and a half is like getting read PowerPoints for eight hours a day. And then the last year is I've been in California doing my clinical rotations.
Brian 12:02
We get we get a ton of questions about people that just want we don't really know that much about it. We haven't been to those units and been assigned to the special mission units like you're talking about. So I just wanted to get your perspective and put it out there. You know, we always tell guys, you should not really be thinking about like that as your end goal or anything like that right now focus on this training that's in front of you. So what advice would you give to people that are thinking about those kind of units like you're talking about?
Courtright 12:28
Yeah, absolutely. So I think guys have talked about in your other podcast, too, like I know JMac was talking about like, what it's like when you first when you get to your first unit and you're like, Man, I've been I've been training for you know, two and a half, three years to get here and then you get there and realize like you really you have some tools but you really don't know a whole lot yet. So there is I think I went out a good time in my career is I had four years of solid just like learning my job. Like getting good at medicine getting good at all the skills that you need to be a good PJ because that's you know if you're going to do go do something like that in your career like you need to have a really solid foundation there's no there's no going there and like learning the basics, you know you and towards the end of my time there I was involved in selection more and you see guys who are great guys but like you know they get up there and they're not solid in some area you know they're not comfortable tying knots or ropes or setting up systems or you know, they're solid dudes but like their medicine skills aren't there or whatever it is. So like, if people have those aspirations, eventually I'd say like, focus on what's in front of you get through the pipeline, get through training, and get your unit and just be like a solid team member and then even team leader I think is valuable experience and I know like things are maybe different now than when I went through. But if you can get a deployment or two, also, that's really helpful.
Aaron 14:10
I think that's the reason why a lot of people will ask us about the special mission units and about those things that are far down the road. And we always, like we were talking about before the podcast, our answer is almost always, Hey, guys, we need to focus on let's get assessment & selection done first, then let's get through pre-dive, then maybe graduate the pipeline. But then you bring up a great point. There's years of practice and years of honing those skills before you should really think about it. So I know we come off as dismissive sometimes on IG or on the YouTube and stuff, but it's great to hear it from the subject matter expert like, hey, focus on one thing at a time, it's great to have that 50 meter, that 100 meter target of maybe that's a goal, but so many things can happen in that four to six years that it's going to take to get there. So yeah, and that's that, that's great input. So speaking about your time there, like you spend a lot of time at that unit a lot of times, you know we sometimes I've heard it affectionately referred Who is the North Carolina Air National Guard because you can go there and stay there forever. I mean, it's not but it's guys will go there and they'll never leave. So you spent a long time there. What was the impetus to get you to go and seek out that next challenge? Why did you want to leave and go be a PA.
Courtright 15:17
So a couple things like I, I kind of had heard about the, the, you know, the military pa program kind of earlier in my career and sound like something that I'd eventually want to do. And just the timing worked out pretty well where I was kind of getting to the point where I was going to, I moved on to an instructor position and I was going to move on to kind of, you know, more senior enlisted duties and stuff like that, and I felt like I'd done as much as I could reasonably ask to do. And it seemed like a good transition. So just getting my in. I kind of I have like a backup plan, like my plan A worked out but my, my plan B you know, it's like, hey, I need to get these prereqs done my prerequisites the all the stuff you have to do to get into PA school like biology class, chemistry class, all that stuff. I need to do that eventually anyway if I want to go back to school, whether it's after I retire or something like that, so I just got that stuff done. took probably five years of just, you know, doing one online class at a time in between deployments and stuff like that and then put in my application and got picked up. So, you know, I figured it was a win if I got picked up and great. I get to go to PA school and if I don't, then great, I can stay here and enjoy being an instructor and, you know, keep doing that. I haven't seen any of you guys just released a podcast about you know, family life and that type of thing. And like I deployed at least once a year for eight and a half years, and not to mention training and those were kind of varying length deployments, but you know, my wife jokes that like, we've been married almost 16 years now. And the secret to our success is we really haven't spent that much time together.
Aaron 17:22
You'd be surprised how many people say that exact thing. How do you guys make it work? Well, I mean, we're only together six months a year tops. So it's been pretty good.
Courtright 17:32
So all those things were factors. But, yeah, I mean, it was it was kind of like I saw it is, you know, it's not so much. It's like, I want to leave what's my, what's my opportunity to get out of here, but it's kind of like, hey, like you do this other thing as well. At some point.
Aaron 17:49
It's what's the next challenge. We recruit specifically for people that are seeking out that next challenge, and it's I never meant to disparage I never mean to disparage any other career field like man, 9-lines are hard being an air traffic controller and being a JTAC is hard being a Special Reconnaissance, whatever it is that that is, that's probably that's probably pretty hard right? But man you're talking about stopping it is you're talking about stopping a human from dying and you're talking about you know, giving hopefully, you know, medical care to somebody for the rest of their life. Like that's a pretty big challenge. So you know, but it's not that you wanted to leave it's just that's a big challenge to seek out.
Brian 18:30
I was right there with you John though. I was like, man, I could definitely continue being a PJ I really love this job. And, you know, the people that I'm around day to day is just awesome going on trips with guys and, you know, just in, you're enjoying your life and then, you know, at some point or another you're kind of like, Alright, what am I going to do after the ride stops though, you know, after you stop being a PJ and you are like, okay, here's your DD-214 Thank you for your service, and what are you going to do after that? So that's kind of some of the things that went through my head. Also when I was deciding for the PA school thing, but it is a tough decision to do. And I didn't feel as much pressure though to that I was going to be accepted into like PA school versus like going INDOC, I was trying to my butt off or INDOC I had been studying like you did for three to four years and doing classes here and there. But, you know, at the end of the day is like okay, well, PA school, I'll be awesome to do but I'm not going to hate being a PJ still.
Courtright 19:29
Right? Yeah. And I think guys too, you know, this may lead to some other things we're going to talk about but I think in every job guys kind of gravitate toward different aspects of it. You know, like, I mean, I know ton of PJ's who hated medicine and they would do you know, whatever it took whatever it took. Oh, yeah, but like they might...
Aaron 19:52
There's tactics guys, there's jumping dudes, there's guys like to shoot there's got Yeah, 100% there's, there's dudes that all they care about is you know, you know, freefall or tandem or you know those other air employment capabilities.
Trent 20:08
Well, I'm just sitting over here getting all amped up, because as the resident non-planner, you know, I love how your story plays out, like, I wanted to Japan so I did it, this other opportunity happen. And it's not like you didn't plan on doing other things. You know, you had to work towards becoming a PA eventually. But it's not like you joined and you're like, Hey, I'm going to go to this other unit or whatever. You're just like, hey, one day, I was like, I could do more. And the opportunity presented itself and you took the opportunity. So I really dig that because I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but it didn't sound like you know, you're over in Japan and you're like, this is how my Air Force career is going to lay out and in 18 years, I'm going to become a PA, after doing all these other things. You just kind of, you know, worked hard. Where you felt like you needed to go and grab the opportunities when they came to you.
Courtright 20:54
Yeah, absolutely. If I didn't have I didn't have the long range plan all that worked out and I know like I know you guys have gotten this question about you know this kind of being a stepping stone or like part of your plan to go do something else and I know Brian like in the like some of the events and stuff we you've seen guys and I've seen guys they're done with you are like well I think I'd like to you know be a PJ for a bit before I go to medical school before I go to PA school or something like that but like when I joined that was that was it like I was that's all I wanted to do was be a PJ and there was like, No, there was no backup plan. And it was only later that and kind of like heard, you know, heard about these other opportunities and like talk to guys who are either planning something similar or something like that. So I guess you know, I was going to say like when I first enlisted, I still remember like going to the recruiter and like okay, you know here's your date for BMT you've got your past test done. Just need to pick like two or three other jobs. Like what are you talking about?
Aaron 22:18
Yeah, like I thought we thought I thought we talked about this as the whole point of getting the contract I'm going to go be a PJ.
Courtright 22:26
Like a you know, a lot of people fail out and if you do, you're probably going to have to go do another job. So what do you want it to be? Like? Nothing else sounds good. So, and I think, you know, having that mindset has helpful in you from the podcast. I've seen him in Brian, I know you like, your whole, the whole model of like burn the boats, like, Hey, I'm 100% committed to this, I'm going into this and there's like, there's no room in my brain for, hey, if this doesn't work out, you know, I can go do something else or I could go back to school or and I think that you know, guys quit for different reasons, right but like, I think sometimes that creeps in, you know, they're like, Man, this really sucks but like, I could always go back and do that other thing that I was thinking about doing and then I would not be dealing with this.
Aaron 23:37
I connect with the two on a crosstrainee level because you know, just like it's easy to be like, Hey, I have this backup plan. I can always flex I've already thought about it and that kind of that kind of helps but me as a crosstrainee and I talked about this in the in the prior video, too. There were days where I was like, Hey, I was pretty established in my other career field. I could have just stayed in there and kind of coasted and gone out with it. So and I that definitely resonates with me is, is that backup plan or having that other option as opposed to you know truly, hey, let's go forward and we're going to do this thing and it's my primary focus and failure may be an option, but it's not an option that I'm considering. So let's go.
Brian 24:14
Yeah, that's 100% where I was with PA school also, you know, I was talking about, you know, how I wasn't as concerned about getting selected, because I enjoyed being a PJ. But once I got into it, like, all right, family gear up, because we're 100% into this thing, you guys know that I'm going to have to be studying that, you know, is the same way I know you have the same thing because you have kids also and obviously wife and everything, but it's the same thing. It's like, all right, family gear up, because we're going to go on this ride together. It's going to be two and a half years of constantly studying and doing everything for my own kind of symbolism is I sewed all this stuff onto my officer coat as soon as I got into PA school because I knew that I was going to Graduate whenever I started, I wasn't going to there's no going back I wasn't going to go back to the career field as like oh, what happened a PA school you failed it you know, I couldn't be that...I made sure I did every single thing that I can and you know force myself to not have any route back it's like okay I'm not going to be this anymore I'm going to be a PA and that's the end of it. So that's kind of, you know what I did going into PA school.
Trent 25:30
Dude I still have like SSgt stripes on some of my uniforms just in case you know, we have nothing in common.
Aaron 25:40
Trent and I are currently living in the world's most terrifying environment, which is high line numbers and a long time until you pin on so Senior Airman Love is about to make an unceremonious return it's coming.
Brian 25:51
Alright, so for those guys out there, I just want you to go over. Do you think there are any specific traits that you know being a PJ has kind of instilled in you over the years that you're going to kind of reach back and pull out, like going through in doc or going through whatever. Is there anything that you feel has helped you to prepare for your future?
Courtright 26:14
Yeah, I mean, it's kind of one of those questions of like, because I've been I've been asked this before, too is like, is that are there certain traits that you kind of develop throughout the training process? Or is it something that you have that makes you successful? Right, like nature versus nurture, kind of something like that. But I mean, I think something that helped me along the way. I don't know how to answer that question. If it's whether it's like something I developed or something I had that allowed me to get through training successfully, but just like being calm under pressure, like there's freaking out doesn't help anything and also, something I think I did develop more later on in my career is just like, my kind of default mode is like problem solving mode, right? So like, I immediately go into, like, Alright, what are we going to do about this instead of like, spending some time either complaining about it or thinking like, Oh my god, I can't believe this is happening. It's like, my brain switches pretty fast to like, Okay, what like, what assets do we have? What can we leverage? How can we make the situation better? And I think, you know, as we definitely helps as a PJ obviously, but, you know, even in school and, you know, clinical rotations and stuff like that, like I worked in the ER and people were like, that's, you don't really freak out about stuff. I mean, like, we just had a pretty bad patient and you didn't seem to like, be concerned or not that I didn't care but like...
Aaron 27:54
My favorite quote came from a one of the trauma like one of the top level trauma Docs in the world was work in it at Baltimore shock trauma, I got to go through rotation. But it was funny. He said the same thing that I've taken from him the entire time somebody said something, you know, to the essence of like, holy cow that was literally a car accident to trauma patients at the same time and you were so calm, how'd you do? And he's like, Well, I mean, it wasn't really my emergency. I just had to manage it was just like, that's a very cold and calm way. But at that point, like you're just you're in problem solving mode. What's in front of me? What can I fix? And like everybody else, it's their emergency. I'm going to help them through it.
Courtright 28:32
Yeah, I've heard the same thing from some Docs, too, is like, it does sound cold. It's like, well, it's their emergency. It's not mine, but it doesn't, you know, it's not going to help that patient for you to be also having an emergency. It's going to help them if you're calm and like you're going through your mental checklist and you're solving problems and you're doing what needs to be done to help them. So I think that's been helpful man. I think of like a friend you had a pretty bad parachute malfunction. And he was like, all twisted up in his risers and stuff like that and, and he got down is pretty shaken but you know, we were talking about what happened like he kind of was in an unstable position when he pulled in that caused all kinds of problems and he was like, man, I was just solving whatever problem was in front of me until you know checking my altitude but like just solving problems until I had a good canopy and then, you know, then I just got to get back to the DZ like it's not It wasn't like oh my god I can't believe this happening like his brain just switched and he's like he's solving problems and then he can think about it later. Like what just happened?
Brian 29:44
Yeah, I think does what you're talking about are two of the major personality traits that they're looking for. In selection is why we did you know, like you were talking about we did our little our events with the Be A PJ thing. And we'd have guys do the problem solving team events. So you get a little bit of that social team aspect. See what everyone does while we're under pressure. And obviously, the consequences are drops under waters or whatever. So there's a bit of pressure there. And we see who's kind of calm throughout the situation and who, like you said reverts back to problem solving mode, figuring out what the what each individual team member has to do in order for all of them to be successful, whatever the mission is that we're putting in front of them. Not most of the time, those are obviously benign, we're not going to we're not going to see a car accident or anything unless something really bad happens. And that's not intentional from the program. But so yeah, you got to stay calm. And that's a really important aspects. I just want to highlight that.
Courtright 30:37
And I remember I mean, thinking back to like, in INDOC guys that I looked up to, and talking through kind of like, you know, what's your, what's your strategy kind of what, what are you thinking about and the guys that I saw that I felt like we're the most successful were the guys who like, Hey, man, I'm just, I'm just going to make it to lunch, you know? After lunch, then we're going to start training again. I'm going to make it to dinner and then we're going to, you know, tomorrow we'll get up and do it again. And the guys who were like, Oh my god, we're only on week six. It's what's going to happen week seven is like, I mean, you, you guys know this, but the guys who can kind of get inside their own head, I think and even like specific events is like, I didn't even keep count of like, we never guys were like, okay, we've done 8x 10 ups. Like, we're probably only going to do a couple more, no.
Brian 31:36
One of the things that I would tell people on like rucks or whatever, because we'd go on, like, hey, you're going to go on a six mile ruck or whatever, and then it'd be longer. And I'd ask them like, hey, trainee, whoever, how many miles can you rock with a 60 pound rucksack? And then they'd say, I've never gone over five miles Sergeant. Or I've never done this. Oh, yeah, we'll work we're at eight miles like wrong answer as many miles as I have to get the mission done every single time, you just do it until you're done. And you're going to be told, like you're done at some point in time, but you just keep on going. As much as you can prepare for the worst.
Aaron 32:15
I used to do it as a as part of the phase two selection process when I was being an instructor down there when I was at the schoolhouse, but I'd make the students count zero for every rep. And it was one, it was one to screw with them everything like 000. And I would just, I would just drop them for that we would keep count for the number in our head, but I did it also is like a thing to tell them like, Hey, man, you're not you're not counting till the number you're counting until we're done. And those are two different things. So don't pay attention to the number just be in the moment right here and focus on what you're doing because we don't know how long it's going to last. Peaches will tell stories about you know, being in in firefights. And you know, John, I'm sure you have, you know, anecdotal stories of, you know, holy cow. It's like six hours later and we're still doing this thing. So that's kind of valuable. To be, you know, fix the problem that's in front of you right now.
Courtright 33:04
Yeah, for sure. And that definitely translates directly to the job. And I mean, I think about this one of my deployments in Afghanistan, you know, we were going to do a long walk in but the guy was playing the routes like man, we just got like one hill to get over. Like, I'm only taking one water bottle throw my pocket will be good. And, man, it was, it was an epic mountain climbing event and we use every minute of darkness. You know, it was much longer than it was supposed to be. And, you know, guys were hurt guys were, you know, starting to cramp up and all kinds of stuff and it's just like, you just never know like, you cannot you cannot predict. No matter what you're doing, you cannot predict how long it's going to last or you know, how it's going to go necessarily and, and even that Like we almost did, you know, have kind of a follow on mission right after that. So it's like, Guys, you can't get into this mindset of like, we're just going up for, you know, the classic leg. I'm sure everyone's seen Blackhawk Down. But yeah, we're back in 30 minutes, right?
Trent 34:33
Well, I want to say first off, I'm a little disappointed that you're not like in the emergency room screaming at like nurses like it's March E like this patient. After you get through March. Where's your he gets his patient out of here. That's just how I'm visiting my head. You screaming at everybody. But like you talked about some of the other options you had out there. What would you have done had you not gotten into the Air Force PA program and you know, like because PJ sets you up for a lot of things. Brian wrote down a question made a joke about me being a weather guy when I get out, because you know sit in front of a green screen, which I will definitely not do. I shouldn't say that because every time I say I'm definitely not going to do something in life, but I end up doing it and it's humiliating.
Courtright 35:44
So yeah, when I thought about it, you know, I thought about like, I knew I wanted to do medicine. And I thought about, you know, I've talked to a lot of people about, like trying to go to med school versus PA school and you know, what do doctors do versus what a PA is do and if I didn't get in then I'd also looked at other options like you know, there are a ton of guys in the Guard/Reserve Who are you know going to med school we went to PA school or they're already Doc's in PA. So it's like, you get you get a guy who's a PJ and then you hear about these missions that the garden reserve guys do. They have like, a legit like board certified Doc who is been or a surgical pa who's doing like these, these crazy, you know, intricate sutures on you know, some mission that the Guard/Reserve is going out to do. So I thought about you know, doing that option. My preference was to stay active duty. And then so I guess if I didn't get in, I might sort of my plan B was like, hey, I've already done the prereqs I'll just finish out my time as a PJ retire and then you know, look at go to school and you know, use my GI bill or whatever else is out there to go to school.
Aaron 37:01
That's actually a perfect segue so you know as we all get kind of close to that retiring time, you know, we're all 18 year plus and I know there's some service commitments and stuff that Brian's going to have to pay back for being a PA and you too, but yeah, so thinking about thinking about your peer group and those guys that are getting ready to retire what are some other options that those guys have explored? I mean, I know personally guys have gone on to be A-10 pilots some go to the guard, some get out and do I have a friend that I was in Vegas with and now he literally sails around on a boat. And he just kind of lives at sea life and is the Dread Pirate Ship as it were, if you want to check him out on Instagram, go check out the Dread Pirate Ship former PJ that shows around it's awesome. He takes his dog with him everywhere. But what are some things that you saw people like when they're making that transition after retirement or after you know even after a career if they're in for 12 or 14 years and they decide they want to do something else? What have you seen them do and did their resume as a PJ or their experience? Did it helped them and how did you guys leverage that into their next position their next career.
Courtright 38:04
Yeah. So I'll definitely check that out because that's, that's the next thing I want to do is retiring to sail around on the ship. That's my that is something I thought about but yeah, they're guys doing all kinds of stuff. So like, we're probably talking about the same guy who just finished A-10 school. And I another guy we probably all know is he should be he's already switched over basically to the reserves, but he's going to go fly helicopters and then You know, like, kind of like we talked about before like guys kind of find a niche as a PJ and then kind of want to take that to the next level so like I know guys who have gotten really into diving and then you know they kind of go be like an SME and teach like local law enforcement how to do search dives and stuff like that. And I got another buddy who has always been you know, grew up in Alaska always been a you know, mountain near talented climber. He retired a couple years ago and he's starting basically a guiding company in Utah and he's also teaching courses for guys who are still in you know, rope rescue courses and that type of thing. And then I got a friend who is a Controller who is just kind of all like super smart guy always into kind of how things work and the tech side of anything we were doing and we he separated a little bit before I started school and he just finished his undergrad in mechanical engineering. About started his master's degree in mechanical engineering. And he's like, he's already got so many job offers, because there are like, so many companies that you know, they may have technical expertise in, you know, engineering, for example, but they don't have anyone who works for them that has real world experience or has, you know, experience even in the military much less like Special Operations and like it, I saw a bunch when I was working in North Carolina when someone's like someone's trying to develop some kind of new capability or something like that, and they get this great idea on paper, and they bring it to me like, Hey, man, that's not that's not even solving a problem that we have. And what you brought to us like, is not feasible. Like it either weighs 200 pounds, and you're telling me throw it on my back plus I got this other stuff or, you know, it solves a problem in such a limited scope that it's like, it's not even worth worrying about. So he's kind of already tied into that. And I, and I know he saw that, you know, he saw that like, hey, what these guys are really missing is they don't have someone who can talk the lingo and have that, you know engineering background as well as like sort of the common sense that you develop from having an operational career. So there's a big thing like we've talked about like guys going to PA school medical school. There are guys who get out and do something totally different. Like, I got another buddies, he's got his whole like, you know, kind of real estate conglomeration with friends that and family members that he's got going on but yeah, it's all over the map. But I think like to your point about kind of what traits that the other aspect that I've seen a lot too recently and we have the same peer group of guys who are looking to make that transition as there are tons of have sort of programs out there for helping guys transition and what businesses have seen is that, like, I can take a guy who's got, you know, leadership experience, operational experience, problem solving experience, and I can teach him, whatever it is that our industry does, it's very hard to take, you know, a financial analyst or something like that and teach them how to be a leader or teach them how to be like, have grit or be a problem solver, like, that just doesn't happen. So I've seen that shift, you know, in the last five or 10 years where like, companies are starting to figure out and, and I know of guys who have like, been hired by you know, all kinds of different companies that have nothing to do with the military or software anything and even like you know, like financial planning or not like hedge funds exactly, but like that kind In a financial market where it's like, Hey, man, I don't know anything about this stuff. No, that's fine, we'll teach you what we need is like a go getter? Who is going to, like, not quit essentially, you know, who's going to, like, find a solution to a problem? And keep after it.
Brian 43:18
Yeah, so it sounds like all the stuff that you're talking about. And we've been talking about through selection, that same team mentality where most of the guys that are going to go out there, they want a person that is going to be functional that have those leadership qualities, like you're talking about problem solving ability, and to be able to see a target and then go for that target not look at the clock all day, like is it time for me to go home, you know, work that hourly wage, I think all of us have that mindset, we're like, Alright, these are my tasks that I'm going to get done today. And this is what I planned out for myself. So I'm going to stay here until the job is done. And then I'm going to continue you know, throughout the next day and that kind of stuff when we plan our self around tasks rather than, you know, watching a clock and that's how it's always been for us in ST You know, traditionally it's like you get your work done and then you go, do whatever else you want to do. That's kind of the mindset that we have towards most of the stuff we do. So I think that is really important to point out but the experience also like you're saying, that's what I think got me into PA school more than you know, my grades I don't have perfect immaculate GPA or anything that. Most of the people had a higher GPA than I did...
Aaron 44:25
C's get degrees homie, what do you call the person who graduates last in their class at PA school? First of all, Brian Silva, but second of all PA.
Brian 44:43
You know, the point is they accepted me in there because of my leadership abilities and experience that I've had because I want a person like he said, it's not just going to talk to a patient like a robot and recite, you know, algorithm to them, but a person that can actually care and have emotions and take care of the patients with, you know, the best to their ability and make the patients feel like they're being taken care of not just a robot being taken care of. So I think all those things are, are really important to add to your resume. And they'll translate into most of the career fields that you want to do whether sailing around the world are going to be an engineer. I think all those tools are important.
Trent 45:24
Well, one of the things I like to tell people, right is that we get that question all the time. What am I going to do afterwards? And I'm like, whatever you want. Like, whatever you want to do. It's, it's pretty simple. But you, you have all those tools. You have the team time you have the leadership and the people experience and all that other stuff like that the sky's the limit, as far as I can tell.
Aaron 45:44
Well, and that's the funny thing, too, is it's a thing that we don't talk about often and maybe we should but throughout the course of your military career in AFSPECWAR, or we place a high value on development, developing leaders at lower levels. I don't know how many webinars I've sat in, I don't know how many times a commander has been Like, hey, I want to discuss this book or this chapter, this book, hey, I want to I want to focus on this reading list. I want to develop you as a leader. Like, you're getting all of these tools that sometimes you don't even know like, granted, I know exactly how to protect my IT by taking that stupid CBT every year like no, Carol, I don't want to listen to your mixtape. And I'm sorry, you forgot your badge at the door. But like, we you get a whole bunch of extra like added stuff that that you kind of just forget, because, you know, in the in the development mindset, like absolutely, you get to do whatever it is that you want, because you get all of those tools and that experience on the back end, just kind of as an addition to doing the job.
Trent 46:49
If you could take your career back from the very beginning was is there anything you would change timeline wise? You know, maybe not go to Japan first, because you're going to end up there later or is it just you go with the flow? You know, I mean, most pages, as far as I can tell, are kind of like that surfer mentality. Go with the flow nice and easy. But is there anything you would change about? How it's all played out?
Courtright 47:59
Yeah, good question. I mean, short answer is no. But, you know, I've thought throughout my career, you know, thought about like, well, would it have been better to go, you know, join right out of high school and then there are tons of opportunities, you know, while you're in to get a degree like, there's, uh, I mean, Aaron, like you're saying there's, you're not only are these kind of like, behind the scenes skills that you're developing and just being in the community, like you develop. You know, people tell me all the time here like, oh, you're good at standing up in front of a group of people in briefings like...
Aaron 48:38
I've just had, you know, how many briefs I had to do and how like, like, do you know how many times like, they're like, Oh, I get so nervous talking in front of people. Do you know how many times my career is literally either been made or broken by my ability to stand in front of somebody and talk like, that's just a thing that you're expected to do?
Courtright 48:54
Right, right and bred into you also, especially through like Team Leader upgrades and stuff like that. It's like selling your mission right like being able to answer the questions you know you're going to get and with confidence I mean if you get like hey me my team want to do this mission we're capable of doing it like what are you going to do about this contingency? Oof yeah and thought about that, you're not going anywhere right so...
Trent 49:19
Flex on the X is always the right answer.
Aaron 49:22
Listen man if it's METTC dependent we're going to flex on the X I'll hit you up when we get back to base.
Courtright 49:32
Yeah, so you're kind of developing all that stuff along the way. And I what was the question originally?
Aaron 49:45
Would you do it differently?
Courtright 49:49
I've thought about like, would it have been better to, you know, join right out of high school and, and honestly, I don't know if I had the maturity right out of high school to do it. I think it was personally it was good for me to go, you know, be on my own for a while in a foreign country and figure that out. And it was a huge adjustment like going through training. I think my hardest school is basic training just because it was like such a shock of my flight mates, I guess. My fellow Airmen, I couldn't believe I had a much higher expectation of how they were going to be, but anyway, and I was like terrified that I was going to get setback for not folding my socks right and miss my INDOC start date or something like that. I was much more comfortable when it was just like, I just had to keep swimming or I had to keep doing push-ups or I just had to like, keep going. That was much easier for me in a lot of ways. But I don't know I mean, I think if I could, especially after, you know, maybe come in earlier and but I've been really lucky mean like, uh, you know, knock on wood like no it no real injuries to speak of, you know, I'm not, you know, 40+, but like, is still feeling pretty good. So not, you know, I don't regret like, those six years or whatever that I could have come in earlier and how that affected my career. And really like if I could looking back if I could have planned out my career I feel like I was super lucky, you know, I got to, like I said, got to go to Okinawa I felt like I got when I was in North Carolina, like my job was changing every two to three years. And so there was always like a new challenge and there was always kind of a new area to get into that that really kept me engaged. And then and it was a tough decision. It's like, like I kind of said earlier, you know, I tried to look at it as a win-win, but it was like, Hey, I'm either you know, the flip side of that is like, Hey, I have to up this job that I really like, or I have to, you know, say goodbye to this opportunity to go to PA school at least for another two years. So I tried I tried to look at a positive way like however it works out like it's winning So yeah, I don't I don't think I could have pointed out any better. And I got in at the last minute. I mean, I had to like apply for a waiver that I don't think they're even granting anymore. So I took the last the last ticket.
Brian 52:30
Yeah, boss was about to leave and you stopped him on the way out. The so one of the things that I've thought about you know, during this PA thing, I would have rather gone through in doc again, because like you're saying, you know, doing the push-ups, doing the just bonding with the team and that kind of stuff. Like you have friends for life in that kind of situation where, as you know, PA school is kind of different. It's just strung out over such a long period of time and you're just constantly staring at a TV screen or A computer screen or whatever, and you're just trying to read and listen and you're not doing all the same things. So it's kind of polar opposite of where we came from. So, do you think overall, the opportunities there for like the same amount of satisfaction? Or, you know, DC kind of yourself just always missing the career that you had?
Courtright 53:25
Well, I think I definitely, I miss it already. I don't think about it a whole lot, you know, like you, like you were saying, you kind of like your heads either stuck in a book and you're just kind of like, you're a grind, you know, your head, whatever the saying is like your head to the grindstone...Anyway, you're kind of, you're kind of focused on like, especially, you know, when we're in San Antonio, like you've got, there's always a test a couple days away. So like there, there wasn't a whole lot of time to think about it, but like every once in a while, like, we were watching some skydiving video yesterday or something like that, like, Man, that was a lot of fun. And I miss it, but I think as far as job satisfaction goes, it'll be different like, like you said, Brian, it's different community, but one of the thing that I took away from my prior PJ job and then the job now like, big satisfying thing for me is just helping people and you know, whether it's in the ER in clinic or something like that, where you, you explain something to them so that they're, you know, a lot of people freak out about pretty minor symptoms so you can kind of like it. Explain that it's, you know, this is normal, or it's not a big deal or you can offer them some treatment that's going to help them or, or even when you're delivering, you know, difficult news in a, in a good way, then that can be helpful for people. So I think that part is going to be really satisfying. And I think that is one of the things that I was thinking about when I was thinking about making this switch. And, you know, maybe a blessing and a curse, but like, I didn't, I didn't have that many patients as a PJ. So I, that was one of the things that I did, like I said, a blessing and a curse. Like it's a one of the things about the job is like, and I know you guys have talked about this before on the podcast about you know your dream mission is someone's worst day, right? So, like, yeah, you're getting to help somebody but it's either one of your buddies or it's fellow American who needs help, which is, you know, not good. And can be hard to deal with. But so I think that part of it is, is really satisfying.
Aaron 56:05
And that's awesome. And I, I definitely connect with it. Like I agree with everything you're saying, obviously because you know that you were obviously in the same sort of ilk of, Hey, I'm always looking for that next mission, but that when you kind of make that realization, like that's somebody else's most terrible day like that always changes a little bit for me. So we always ask kind of at the end, for anybody that we have on and especially from you with, with all of your experience with everything that you've seen in your career. So if you had just, you know, one or two maybe nuggets of wisdom, something that you would put out there to the people listening that are getting ready to come in this come in this career field, is there is there any advice that you would give somebody trying to get into Special Warfare? What would you say to that young guy or gal that's trying to get ready for assessment selection right now, and then hopefully have a long career afterwards.
Courtright 56:54
Yeah, so I think to, to narrow it down is like preparing and commit, right? So like, if you're already listening to the podcast and you're, you're doing some of the programming, like you're already on the right track, right? So, and I know the guys that you've seen Brian who had done your programming have been successful, you know, at selection and that and that type of thing, because they're because you're not going to be ready for everything right? There's going to be surprised, there's going to be challenges, there's going to be stuff that you haven't seen before. And that's part of the point. But when I was preparing, like, the only information out there was like, guys talking about getting shin splints and stress fractures and stuff like that. So like, Well, I'm not going to get an overuse injury. So I just made sure that I was running and putting a lot of miles and, and, and that type of thing, so that if I was, you know, it wasn't going to be something like that that was going to pull me out of the program, but as far as I can help it and then, like we kind of talked about before like, committing to it and, and, you know, in the Air Force and probably outside the Air Force too, but I'm sure you've seen it, Brian, like, you run into some guy like, Oh yeah, you were a PJ yeah, I was I was going to do that or, or, yeah, I was at INDOC for a while but you know, I decided I'd rather be a med-tech or whatever it is, whatever their story is like, just commit to doing it. Like if you want to do it, then do it. And it's an it's a hard decision. It's a big decision. It was hard for me to make to like, you know, sign up and commit myself but once I did then that was it. It was it wasn't like that. Let me try this for a while and, and see what it's like and I think a lot of guys like when I went through training you know, I didn't know any PJ's I didn't know what to expect and weren't really like any videos out. But you know, guys get there and like, I just didn't think it was going to be this hard. I didn't think it's going to suck this much. I think that was it was going to be this tiring, like, I don't know what you expected but yeah, it's going to be so just, you know, sign up for it and do it. You know, it's easy to say but I think like you guys talked about on past podcasts that I've watched like, it's mindset, right. So and then kind of like when I was the big advice that that I had going in from what was out there on the internet, I guess was like to grad standards are out there or they were and just be at that when you start, like make that your goal. And the guys that you know, are physically fine successful are usually guys who are kind of at that standard when they start it's that. I mean there are a ton of stories and I got tons of buddies who were like I had no idea I was I joined to be a whatever a cop or whatever and then I got this recruiting brief was like, Oh, that sounds cool. I'll try that I didn't know how to swim. I could only do that pull in
Aaron 60:23
I would say we have to worry about copyright. But number one, it was terrible and it sounds like a parody. And number two, Three Doors Down is currently playing Mike's tire center in Arizona, so I think they're good. I don't think they listen to the podcast.
Courtright 60:38
They're going to get their money out of yours. They can though they're working Mike Terisha. Yes, yeah.
Trent 60:44
Yeah, but I think everything you talked about like, and the reason we do this is like, it's worth it. Right. And one of the what once you get through when you get into the career, I think one of the big takeaways is, how amazing the community is, and the opportunity that we get to work with every day, those guys that push through all that stuff that pushed through the inbox and the selections, got out there on team and made it through everything. And when you're listening to this, you may not know, but this is a we're recording this over Memorial Day weekend. And so when we, you know, this is the weekend where we sit back and we think about all the heroes that we had the privilege to serve with, that never came home. So just wanted to mention that. But to me, that's, that's the greatest part about this community is being able to serve with the people that we're able to serve with the people that are always out there looking for more, and sometimes they don't come home, so I just want to take a moment put that out there.
Courtright 61:38
Yeah, absolutely. I know. I mean, everybody has friends and you know, guys, I've been on team with guys that, you know, been through the pipeline with and that kind of thing that unfortunately, you know, for their families and everything paid ultimate sacrifice and yeah, like you said, it's I mean Think about this guys every day but especially Memorial Day like whatever you do you know there's like Memorial workouts and you know going to visit graves in Arlington and that kind of thing like yeah it's just it's important to remember and carry those guys names on.
Aaron 62:18
My Murph tomorrow will be for Oh Peter Kraines man let's last one this year so.
Brian 62:24
I'm actually wearing my INDOC shirt right now this is Major Brian Adrian right here and from the old INDOC, but yeah, whatever you guys, however you guys like to memorialize the people that you've known throughout your career because you even have, I'm sure family members and stuff like that for you guys. And if you don't, you know, pay respects to those people that have paid the ultimate sacrifices, you know, we are able to still live each day and, you know, go out there and actually earn each breath, you know, and it's as kind of cliché as it sounds. We are here and we're able to proceed with our goals and continue like John was saying, you know, go through the selections, experience life go through the challenges and all those things. And we got to do it for those people that aren't able to do it anymore and continue the legacy of not only just the career fields but their memory and the way that they've impacted your life. So we'll carry their memories on for forever. So, I appreciate you coming on any parting shots or anything you got, John?
Courtright 63:31
No, I appreciate the opportunity and yeah, it's good. If nothing else hang out with you guys virtually and tell some funny stories but man, I appreciate it. And like if you guys if you get follow up questions there for something, I can answer and don't hesitate. Awesome.
Aaron 63:54
Yeah. Thanks for coming on. Can't say enough how much we appreciate your time. Congratulations. I know you guys are at the end of the pipeline for the for the PA thing so I can't wait to see what you do there but yeah mad respect not so much to Brian, Brian sort of just muddle through it but especially you, you really did a really well.
Brian 64:13
Alright, so thanks again for you guys for listening to the podcasts. Like I said go ahead and like subscribe, leave us a comment out there on the Apple Podcasts five star review we really appreciate it. Go check out the store onesready.com we got some new shirts in those Gray Man shirts and then also for the grad standards like John was talking about those are at beapj.com. You can look up those make sure you're training to the highest standard that you can possibly attain before you can get into the pipeline within your time window, you know, make it happen and put in the work like John was talking about. You have to have that preparation aspect and then you have to be dedicated to the thing that you're going to do so prepare, burn the boats and then you know now looking back once you get accepted, you know, like, this is your course in life. This is your next step your next chapter, whatever it is, whether or not you have family, get them prepared and get them ready to go along for the ride because it's going to be rough. And those things that you do that are that are not difficult, you know, you can go not knocking anybody that works at Walmart or works at whatever store, but those things are not as difficult to get into. And it's, for the most part less rewarding for those people, you go to a difficult course you go and be a PJ or go to the 724th STG you go to PA school, all those kind of thing. Those are things that you can look back on and people are going to be like, Wow, those are really impressive things that you can put on your resume. And whenever you get out, and you do whatever the next thing is in your life. You're built up this whole big resume that shows that you have a proven record of you're going to make sure that the job is done and you're going to be successful at whatever endeavors you end up achieving in life. And I think that we derive a lot of that it starts from the preparation we put into preparing for selection. And then it continues throughout our career. Because like Aaron was talking about, we all have different challenges, whether it's you know, public speaking, or jumpmaster, or whatever comes up, there's always something that is going to be that next challenge you're focusing on in life. So take it one bite at a time. You know, I always say, how do you eat an elephant one bite at a time. Same thing here. You can look at all these things that that John has done in his career and you're like, Wow, that is amazing. That seems unattainable. But, you know, he's like he said he went with the flow. He learned Japanese you went through all these...
Aaron 66:35
He learned how to fold his underwear. Yeah, made it through that. Like if you look at a guy like you know, every single guy in the Air Force every single like Silver Star Medal of Honor winner, guess what they had to do? First, they had to fold their underwear in six inch squares and be evaluated on that. Got to start somewhere.
Brian 66:59
There are six point one inches is a little bit out of regs, it wasn't as tight as the last guy. Yeah, so take every challenge as it comes. And then when it hits you, your dedicated 100% and make it happen. And you continue to throughout the rest of your life. And I think that's the culture that is instilled in us through the career fields and the people that we've been around for the better part of two decades. So, again, John, I appreciate you coming on the show and talking all these people. If you guys have any questions for John, you can hit us up at info@onesready.com and then we'll send them over to John's email. So again, you guys got that info about 724. Don't focus on it right now. Focus on what you have in front of you just like all the rest of the challenges that are going to come up in your life. All right. So I appreciate you guys listening again. Check out the next episode. It's going to be awesome. And then make sure you go out there and eat breath.
TLDR: Burn the boats. Don’t have a backup plan when you commit to becoming AFSPECWAR. Seize opportunities. Always keep improving yourself. Have fun. Being a part of this community makes it all worth it.
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