Interview with A&S Superintendent
EPISODE 28
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WELCOME TO THE TEAM ROOM! ON THIS EPISODE PEACHES AND TRENT SIT DOWN WITH MSGT WHO OVERSEES ASSESSMENT AND SELECTION. THIS IS THE INFO YOU’VE BEEN LOOKING FOR.
INTRO
Nikki Silva 00:03
You're listening to the Ones Ready podcast, a team of Air Force Special Operators forged in combat with over 70 years of combined operational experience, as well as a decade of selection instructor experience. If you're tired of settling, and you want to do something you truly believe in, you're in the right place. Now, here's your host, former prep course op superintendent and current Special Reconnaissance training guru Trent Seegmiller.
Trent 00:27
Hey, everybody, welcome back to another One's Ready podcast, you're in the team room today. And today is maybe the most important podcast that we've ever done, which maybe isn't saying that much, but we're really excited about it. So first off, just want to say thanks to everybody out there that's listening and subscribing and leaving comments. We appreciate it. We try to get back to everything as soon as we can. And really the reason that we started this podcast was to get the relevant information out to y'all that you need to be a successful candidate within the app spec or community. So, let's just dive right into it. Right. And I say that all the time. So, we have here with us. One of the founders, one of the people that's heavily engaged in the assessment and selection course. And maybe I said founders and maybe that's not true, but MSgt, you might tell us a little bit about yourself and why we have you on the podcast.
Lopaka 01:22
Yep. So, my name is Lopaka Mounts. I've been in the Air Force for a little over 18 years. All that's been Pararescue. I'm currently the superintendent of assessment and selection out of the 350th Special Warfare Training Squadron currently.
BASIC MILITARY TRAINING
Trent 01:38
Basic pipeline overview, right. So, we can go that through that you mean, tell us if we're wrong. BMT prep, assessment and selection, right? Those are the three before you break out your pre-dive, dive and all your other schools after that, is that tracking?
Lopaka 01:51
Yes, that's correct. I mean, you got to I mean, obviously, most of your listeners are probably working with developers or things of that sort, but that's kind of a precursor to coming into BMT so I know those guys are working out there with the developers and things of that sort thinking about what they want to do, but I guess that's a precursor right to coming into BMT. So, and then then just to kind of straighten up the line, it's BMT prep-assessment selection for your Special Tactics, Guardian Angel Weapon System candidates, right? That's those are the only three emphases that that attend the assessment selection course within the Special Warfare Training Wing.
Peaches 02:31
Okay, so the just for my clarification then for BMT, I know probably when the three of us went through, it was you go to the same BMT that everybody else does. Special Warfare though has its own BMT flight though right or its own special kind of BMT that affords more time to work out, maybe more food, more time to eat and that kind of stuff to since they've spent all this time in development to help them transition through so that they don't lose too much during basic training.
Lopaka 03:06
Correct. So, you know, we they move into a specific Special Warfare training flight so they get shipped in those increments to those BMT locations and they run together as one Special Warfare training flight within BMT and then along that process, you have 350th cadre members that that go and actually integrate with the BMT cadre members or MTIs. And then those individuals from the 350th run their physical fitness conditioning, through BMT and also mentoring sessions along the way.
INDOC TO A&S
Trent 03:41
Awesome. So, I mean, can you you've been around for a little bit now and I called you one of the founders I'm not sure if that's 100% accurate, but why did we make the change? I think a lot of people are curious about it, you know, we had INDOC, the CCT/SOWT selection course. And then we move to the A&S. We started prep, we have A&S now. What was can you go into a little bit of the background on that?
Lopaka 04:06
Yeah, sure. So, when I came here, obviously, I was in charge of kind of standing up the assessment selection process. And so, the goal was, I mean, there's always been a selection process, right Combat Control/Pararescue prior to 2000. We're all in this together at INDOC and trying to forge warriors back then. And I believe the leadership and head shed that went through that process that's currently sitting in those seats now, believe that there was there was something that we were missing or we lost. So, I think part of that is bringing back everyone back under the same umbrella. So by combining the indoctrination course and the Combat Control selection course, which again until you know, your three AFSCs that we talked about, which was the Special Operations are a Special Weather, but now it's called Special Reconnaissance and then Combat Control and then your STOs they also have now Pararescue and Combat Rescue Officers in there as well. So, I think I think there's something to be said about training all together, the whole cohort that's actually being that actually supports a SOCOM mission set at the very, you know, genesis of their training, right? So, it's very important to build that foundation, build those bonds build that mentality, because we all work together, and we're all supporting those agencies or those sister services downrange, and when you build that bond early, it has long lasting effects and also people get to know each other's AFSCs the way the way they should so I think it was important to move towards that and get those cohorts to work together and get back to that foundational process that used to happen because it absolutely forged some hardcore warriors and people that are out there doing some great things and been awarded for some great things so that that's the reason why I think we moved to that process. And it's a formidable process at that. One other one other thing I would add is, you know, it's also an important thing and a requirement for that, you know, that SOCOM or that SOF community, that people that work within a community are actually are assessed and selected, right, they go through a program of that sort. So I mean, like your BUDs or your FSAS or your MARSOC, you know, those are, those are key schools or key programs that that push people to the limit in all environments and expect them to react and adapt appropriately, because that's what it takes to be a successful operator downrange and become commodity and successful. So, I think that's the genesis of it.
Peaches 06:48
I'm really happy that you said that actually, because as a dude that went through INDOC with when it was Controllers and PJ's. I thought we had something really special there and it was kind of upsetting for me. Whenever we moved away from it, I mean, yeah, the maybe the training aspect of it was better. You know, we've trained smarter, just like, we definitely train smarter now than we did five years ago. But I think there's a lot of goodness in having all the career fields, right? They're going through the same stuff. That way, there's no question, hey, this guy goes through the same thing that I did. Or you know, or did you kind of get off lite and now we're doing the same thing? I don't know that you have been tested in the way that I have kind of thing.
Lopaka 07:33
Correct. I would agree with that.
A&S STANDARDS
Peaches 07:35
Okay, cool. So, since we're talking about that whole, you know, A&S physical standards, like, we get questions a lot about physical standards, hey, what are the graduation standards? We tell them that there's no graduation standards, but I was hoping that you could, you know, elaborate on that a little bit. As much as you can.
Lopaka 07:59
Yes. I'll take that up. So, the great thing is this, they already know what the physical standard is they took it and pre-accessions right? So, prior to coming in BMT developers are prior to BMT, excuse me at your recruiting and developer stage. So, in order to get into A&S, the go/no go is the PAST. That's all it is. Perform the standard, the problem that we have is that we have candidates that come in without conviction. And they lose that thought process, right. So, everyone's worried they trained to a standard. So, if I don't tell you the standard, you're going to go look it up, and hopefully you trained to crush the standard when you're tired, right? And that's what we want. That's what we want people to do. That's what we expect out of people. And so, it's basically shows up. the only the only levy stress is on yourself, and your test anxiety for that day. But man, you got to produce results in order to get into the game and its expected right, it's expected that you produce some type of result and it's expected that we as cadre have to hold you to a standard. So that's what we're driving towards. And standards change they do, for sure. So, make no doubt about that. And, you know, as we get quality candidates maybe standards go up depending on what that is. So, right now it's the PAST. It's not as challenging as people think. But they make it more than what it is. So that that's the beginning standard to get through the door, right. So that is the first check on their physical conditioning as they come out of the preparatory course. Right. And that, again, is for your Special Reconnaissance and your Pararescue and your Combat Controllers and your Special Tactics Officers and Combat Rescue Officers. So that that's the first check. And then, you know, along the way of the first few phases of A&S, there are three, there are a few events that are key events along the way. So, there's a rubric. There's a legitimate standard that you have to meet for those things. And it's a conglomerative kind of equation, I guess, if you want to go that route, it's additive. So, if you fail these three things along the way, in training, you're going to be looked at for elimination. And it's not just looking at that physical standard, but it's also looking at everything else that's been collected on you and your performance up to that point. So, it's a really holistic look on that process. Right. So, you know, there's been a lot of things out there that, hey, we're moving to an assessment and selection process, you know basically, a lot of DoD has said this, you know, and I don't want to take words out of out of the AFSOC Commander's mouth or USASOC and things of that sort, but, you know, they're all leading towards one thing, and that's like, Hey, we're moving into an informational, technological advanced environment when it comes to SOF right. But what that doesn't overshadow or it doesn't. It what we shouldn't forget is, what physicality it takes in order to get to in order to do those things that were asked to do, so that's super important is just as important. And I would say at this level, the physicality of an individual is very important, right? Because you have to have that foundational rock. But we also have to build the foundational rock when it comes to mentality, their psychological and cognitive capability, you know, how they work in sleep deprivation, caloric deficit, you know, and along the way, how do they perform physically along that? How do they interact with people because we all know in our community with a three AFSCs or five AFSCs, excuse me, that we're required to integrate, we're required to integrate last minute we're required to learn and observe our environments and adapt and change immediately in order to accommodate those aspects or personnel that we work with, in order to facilitate the things that we're there to do, right. Whether it's personnel recovery, precision strike, or, you know, the facets of both of those things all rolled in there and reconnaissance as well, right? So in order for us to do our job well, we have to integrate with people we have to do while we're sleep deprived a lot of the times we have to be physically fit, you know, and we and we have to be able to work on our feet for long periods of time and in this process that that we built here has definitely pulled in some of the good of INDOC some of the great have and good of CCSC and the Controller pipeline that the PJ pipeline and the SR pipeline and we've merged all those things into this process. And we're getting after it in those ways and developing events and pushing students through that process for four days on end with no break.
Peaches 12:37
Man, I almost feel like there needs to be a mic drop right there that was awesome. I mean, one of the things that we or at least that I tell guys and you know whenever the whole standards things come out is hey man be able to pass a PAST test. short notice like on any day, you know, even if you have already worked out that day, be able to go out there and just meet the minimums. Like you're, you're able to go out there and crush the PAST, and you're going to be just fine. Physically, the mental part. That's a whole other game.
Lopaka 13:08
Absolutely, absolutely. And that's, that's the goal right INDOC back in the day when we all went together went through it even CCSC but I would say more so through the Controller pipeline for the two years. And it goes both all those programs. The goal was to build that, that that individual that can that can adapt immediately right and perform results, produce results when asked upon, right, because I mean, that's, that's the bottom line. That's what separates special operators from other people is man, we may be doing one task and we're asked to execute another task that we may have very little knowledge of and or time to prep and then get done. So, this process here hopefully helps build that foundation and starts to test them right. INDOC and CCSC. Absolutely. We're conditioning mindsets for a long time, you know you're talking about for decades, and it's worked, it's a pretty It was a professional program, it did a lot of good things. And the goal is that the assessment/selection, I think we actually say the goal, I think we've done that, and as these things move on, you know, things will be more refined, and it'll become even tighter and those processes will be more solidified. So, I mean, in the end, you know, the other purpose of this A&S piece is we were building an operational admission requirement, right? Not building it off of what a qualification may be. Who cares about qualification? Like, what is our mission set? What's the core responsibilities that we have to provide at the end state? How do we actually employ you know, precision strike, reconnaissance and that kind of global access and personnel recovery? How do we do that? How do we do it to our ability and we need Airmen to be able to think on their feet and move through those processes in the new informational technology technological age and, and hopefully this process is starting to develop that in a different way, then then INDOC did but it's absolutely formidable. We're definitely proud of what's going on here. unlike anything else things need to grow and become even more challenging as we move forward.
GOOD AND BAD TRENDS FROM CANDIDATES
Trent 15:20
So, I mean, we've been running I guess y'all have been running A&S for a while now. Are you seeing any trends? Good or bad from the candidates that, you know if you could put it out there to a candidate that's not even seeing the recruiter yet or anything? things that maybe they could work on to be a little more successful with just stuff that you've seen? Oh,
Lopaka 15:40
yeah. So, I guess the biggest thing is mindset. Everyone thinks this is a physicality game, and it absolutely is 100%. But if you come to the game without conviction, and what I mean by game I mean by like signing up to MEPS or going into to the recruiters and you're like, looking to go to do something special, right. And, you know, kind of one of the things that I noticed is that when people are interested in our society, they want to do something special, they want to be a part of something special wherever it may be, but they're unwilling to do the work for it right? And put out every single day, get out there and get after it. So, and that is only for the possible opportunity to do something special, right? So, then people need to have good work ethic, they need to have conviction. And if they have that from the start, and that's a moldable individual that we that we can deal with, right? If you come into this game with a plan B, you're wrong, because you're never going to make it out of out of BMT in the mindset that you need to in order to progress to the initial training here at JPLA. So, our Joint Base Lackland, okay, so the biggest problem is that our society or you know, or what we're recruiting There's a lot of times these guys come in and they just don't have conviction. And that's a problem. And that's the biggest thing that I see. Because Yeah, there are programs here that help you get physically fit. The other portion of that is people come in you're thinking, Well, hey man, I heard prep is a great program and it's going to get me physically fit wrong. You know what, you should come in there crushing whatever preps going to throw at you, period and the story so you know, get out of the get out of your head of being entitled nothing's ever given to you. Everything's earned. And it's everything that you go through this process is expected to push you and if it isn't, we're wrong as cadre and we need to get our act together to make sure that we're driving you forward every single day.
Peaches 17:46
Other than conviction, the entitlement attitude, like as bad traits that you guys have seen as a trend. What are some good traits that you've seen the guys and girls coming through have or with or that you would maybe recommend?
Lopaka 18:02
Man, I think other good traits that drive. I've seen some good traits of adaptability, like we were talking about earlier, you know, if you if you show up every single day, and you're trying your hardest you're doing what you can do. Sometimes it's not good enough. And that's okay. Right. So, some of the good traits that I've seen is some of these candidates will take the failure. And they'll be like roger that they won't make excuses, right? So good traits are not making excuses, taking your failures as it is looking into yourself, of why you failed versus projecting it onto somebody else. And then becoming more self-aware, because that's a whole other process of this assessment/selection course, the goal, as well as leaving that process is, man, you had a notebook the whole time, you should be writing down all your shortcomings, all the things that you failed and how you get better at those things. So, it's be just becoming more self-aware because the more self-aware you become, the more keen to your surroundings you are, the better off you're going to be and you won't make those repetitive mistakes. So, I think in that sense, there are some candidates that are absolutely coming in ready to go. And that are that are willing to accept failure. And those are the those are the individuals that are successful majority of times, sometimes they're not, because maybe it's just not the right time for them. But then you see him come back a year later, and they stand up and they tell you, I told you so. And they make it through the process. So, man that that's what it takes, I think, and that's what I've seen in some candidates. But I would say that's probably something good traits that I've seen.
IMPACTS FROM COVID-19
Peaches 19:32
Okay, I got one more question for you in terms of kind of this preparation. I know we're only two months into this COVID-19 lockdown, but a lot of people are concerned is hey, I don't get a chance to go to the gym. I don't get a chance to hit the pools. Since we're only two months. I'd be kind of surprised if you have seen anybody. Maybe you have you guys had to deal with that. And have you seen candidates show up that are not prepared?
Lopaka 19:58
No, I wouldn't say so. It's really on the candidate, right? So, we haven't stopped operations. We're still training people, we're still doing things at BMT shipping, we're still training. Like, that's the way it goes. Regardless, we haven't stopped doing anything. We're still in the pool. We're still in the gym, we're still doing the things we need to do, right? So, man, that's where that's where the flip side of the coin happens there is, if we are expected to come to work as cadre members to train you, then you are expected to wake up every single day ready to give us 110%. So, you know, a lot of guys will make that mistake of candidates wise, as well, I got these excuses, right? Put them at the door, show up, get ready to train, give it all you got. And if you do that, most majority of time you'd be successful. Or at a minimum, you're going to be a better version of you when you go to sleep that day and tomorrow when you wake up so that's those are the things that we haven't really seen it. Do guys show up unprepared. Yeah, they do because they're in their head. And or they didn't put out, or they had a plan B.
PERSONALITY VARIATIONS
Trent 21:16
One of the things we talked about a lot is how on team, the variants in personalities is kind of what makes a team great, how we're all kind of different. But I know students oftentimes show up, and they'll look at certain people that they think are going to be successful. And they're like, well, I don't fit in with that group, or they, you know, they get into their head in the wrong way. Have you seen any? Is there like a particular personality type that's more successful than another? Or any? I mean, you've talked a lot about the characteristic traits that make a successful candidate, A&S graduate. But is there anything personality wise, or what would you tell that person? It's like, I don't think I fit in with these people that I think are going to be successful.
Lopaka 21:56
That's a good question, right? Sounds like my 13-year-old son asked me the same thing. So, man, first thing I just tell him to get out of his head and her to get out of her head, either one, whichever it may be, and if they want to be here, then show up every single day like everyone wants to hear, like, Oh, this is my why, like, I don't care about your why I don't want to hear it, I just want to see you do it. If you do it, you produce results, then that that's your why that's why you're here, right? So, guys that think that they don't belong in this career field, then they should have never signed up in the first place, right? Or you just tell them to suck it up, get back in training and figure it out, you know, lean on those things, lean on your strengths, figure out where you fit into the team, because that's what it takes in order for you to be successful and in that, you know, Special Tactics/Guardian Angel Weapon Systems. And it takes an individual that has the ability to you know, adapt to that that environment, right, because there's a lot of times you step into an environment in our communities where you don't fit in. You don't train with them on a daily basis. You don't live with them on a daily basis. And then all of a sudden you show up, you know, a month Prior to deployment, and you're expected to integrate immediately and become best friends like with them that, you know, you went to their buddy's wedding as their best man, that didn't happen. So, you know, but I will tell you that the operators in the in that community and the ST/GA community that we're talking about that are going through assessment selection or Special Tactics/Guardian Angel they make a great name for themselves, right? Quiet, professional, humble, for the most part, and then you go in there and you do your job, do your job, well know what your job entails, know what you're supposed to be doing. And you just execute, man. Because at the very last measure, it's what you're producing. It's not what you're saying. Right. And a lot of people here like to say their why but it's what you produce is what last so and that that speaks volumes downrange that speaks volumes in a team room that speaks volumes in a team room of sister service members that you're working with downrange because that's all they care about. Right? They care about you. doing your job to your utmost ability, because if you don't, someone's going to have to pick up the slack. And hopefully we're building that process here with this new process.
ADVICE TO CANDIDATES
Peaches 24:09
Yeah. And that's another soundbite. That was phenomenal. I last question that I'm about to ask you. But I bet that this one's also going to provide a soundbite because you've given us a couple so far. So, what advice would you give the candidates that are coming in?
Lopaka 24:29
So, I would say the candidates that are coming into the Special Tactics/Guardian Angel, right? I would say First things first, do your research. Don't sign up to anything you're not willing to commit to. Every AFSC is asking you to commit your whole self to this process. In fact, when you join DoD, it asks you to commit that you raise your right hand to support defend the constitution. And one the biggest thing is you give up your right to democracy for dictatorship. So, people don't understand, that right? There's not a lot of choice in the matter. You know, if you're able to have choices, great, don't depend on them. Because they may not be there. They may not be the choices that you think they are. And you may get driven into something you don't want based off your, your ability to do to perform. So, you may underperform based off of you think you got a plan B, C, D, and it may never work out, you may find yourself in another job in the Air Force. So, first things first, do your research, have conviction, show up to the recruiter’s office with what you want to do. And then just start producing results and do more and more research. Ask your developer for whatever that AFSC you want. You know, ask them for information on ask them to drive you those things. And then do your own research, have some self-initiative, some drive that to understand what you're getting into, you know, and research those things that you want, so that you can make the right decision. Because in the end, this is a competitive process. And we want the right people for the right job. So that's the first thing I would say. The second thing is it's specifically your you know your Special Tactics and your Guardian Angel. You know, there is a couple mottos in there, right where it says, you know, "First there...that others may live" or "These things we do or I do that others may live", the inherent thing that these things are asking is you to become selfless, right bottom line, and that is completely against human nature. Human Nature is to be a selfish, selfish person when you know things get rough, things are starting to bite at you at night and you know, things are just not right. So, what I would say is this, the INDOC process back in the day and this process now that we're driving through because it just doesn't stop at assessment/selection, and it doesn't stop at pre-dive. It goes on through the rest of your career, right. So, everyone's kind of thinking of these little itty-bitty portions. But bottom line is this, those processes to include BUDS and SFAS and MARSOC. In my perspective, they're trying to close the narrative on the selfish human behavior, when the moment of selflessness is asked upon you in a combat in a combative situation or in a situation where you have to choose between, you know, yourself preservation, or somebody else. And if you really think about our mottos "First there...that others may live" or "These things we do that others may live", you say that for two years, you're indoctrinated and conditioning your mindset to close that narrative. So, there's, there's no second thought. It's like, Man, I'm going because this is what I'm here for. This is what I trained to do. This is what I need to be doing right now. And so, man, commit yourself to the process. Don't leave anything unchecked. Don't come in here with a loose attitude and in a second choice. Just put it down and get ready to be comfortable in the uncomfortable situation. That's what I would say.
Trent 27:51
That is that is that's perfect. So, unless you have anything else for us, I think we're going to wrap this up. MSgt we really appreciate you coming on and, and getting the word out and your perspective for all the future Special Warfare candidates out there. And for everybody else that's out there. Just like you heard today, you need to be training hard, you need to be getting your mind, right, you need to be the person that you think you need to be to make it through the selection process before you even get here. So, you need to get your mind right, you need to be committed, you need to make sure that you're getting all those ducks in a row because you're, you're not going to change exactly who you are. The process is there to expose you and to build you up a little bit but you need to be ready by the time you show up. So, we really appreciate you coming on and everybody else out there. Make sure you listen, listen twice, a lot of good information there and go out their train hard and we'll see you next time. Appreciate it.
TLDR: Train hard. Get your mind right. Don’t doubt yourself. Show who you are through your actions. Earn each breath!
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