Pararescue, Silver Star, Selection
EPISODE 30
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WELCOME TO THE TEAM ROOM! THIS WEEK TRENT THANKS HIMSELF FOR HIS SERVICE, AARON CALLS HIMSELF OUT, GAVIN FISHER FILLS UP THE SWEAR JAR, PEACHES GETS SOME WALL ART, BRIAN CRACKS THE ASVAB CODE, AND WE ALL HAVE A GOOD TIME.
INTRO
Nikki Silva 00:03
You're listening to the ones ready podcast, a team of Air Force Special Operators forged in combat with over 70 years of combined operational experience as well as a decade of selection instructor experience. If you're tired of settling and you want to do something you truly believe in, you're in the right place. Now, here's your host, former prep course op superintendent and current Special Reconnaissance training guru Trent Seegmiller.
Trent 00:27
All right. Welcome back, everybody, future teammates, you’re with Ones Ready in the team room for the podcast. And just like always it’s the greatest podcast you've ever seen, watched or listened to. So you're welcome. We also want to thank you, I guess for watching and listening. We want to start off by saying You're welcome. I want to just put out the value of the podcast. I think it's pretty amazing. And I wish that I would have had this before I joined. So I think it'd be dishonest of me to say that I'm not proud of what we're putting out. But yeah, we do want to tha nk everybody out there that's subscribing, interacting with us on Instagram, Facebook, everywhere else. Twitter I don't know if we do Twitter whatever the kids are using these days Reddit and all that other stuff and listening on all the Spotify and everything else. Apparently Spotify is the next big thing if you haven't heard the news go check it out find a Google see what happens. Also want to talk about some friends of ours we have Alpha Brew Coffee Company if you want to get caffeinated the natural way we have Strike Force Energy, my personal favorite if you want to caffeinated in the you know my way and then we have Eberlestock. So if you want to go out there and rock and use the best equipment for hunting, rocking whatever else, go to Eberlestock, do yourself a favor all those companies that throw in Ones Ready, get yourself a discount. We don't get anything for it. They're just awesome companies. We'd like to support them. So today, our guest Now that I'm done talking about myself and everything that I love, is Gavin Fisher. So Gavin is a Pararescueman. He's got a lot of experience operationally, and as all that other stuff so like always we're going to ask him, what's your background? Tell us a little bit about yourself and get this thing rolling.
GAVIN’S BACKGROUND
Gavin 02:10
Cool. So thanks for having me on the podcast. It's nice that you guys are putting out all this information all the time. Like you said, I wish I would have had this before I joined. Yeah, but so my background is I joined in February 2010 is a straight PJ student went through the pipeline in the average two and a half years. My first and really only operational duty station was Vegas, the 58th Rescue Squadron, but I was there for like, almost seven years. Okay, then within that timeframe. I knocked out on average and deployment every year, some of them were back to back deployments, like I would go from, like Kuwait or Iraq right into Africa. So kind of, you know, little space here and there. But my first deployment was when we were still doing the actual CASEVAC missions, the true Pedro stuff, which was a lot of fun. And that really, kind of, I got a lot of job satisfaction out of that, because there was just blood and guts, danger, everything. And then that kind of took me through some of these more vanilla deployments like to Kuwait and kind of kept going along. On the state side when I wasn't deployed. I was going to help out STTS and helping to take some guys through the air ops phase there. I got to see like a lot of units even all the way up to Alaska, Guard, Reserve, other operational units. So I've really been quite blessed as far as my experience goes, but I do you know, even though I was just technically at Vegas for six and a half years, I got to kind of see everything and then you know, some people know I got blown up and then I was talking to the Chief in Vegas. And he's like, Well, hey, like you've been here forever and you're going to have to go to San Antonio to get healed up anyway. And INDOC is there you may get in on INDOC and then you have A&S that no one really knows what it is. But go there. And so I was like, cool. So my girlfriend and I moved to Texas, I was in A&S for from the first class all the way to the one just before this last one. So I was about another year, year and a half. And then from there, I joined the 308th Rescue Squadron at Patrick Air Force Base, which is Cocoa Beach is how people refer to it a lot the guys at Cocoa Beach so I've been hearing that's a truncated version of my background.
Trent 04:55
Nice. Well, I think what we want you to go into detail a little bit about is that initial, you know going from civilian how you heard about Pararescue your experiences enlisting and through INDOC and maybe some of your what some of the tools you use to make it through and maybe some of the things that have changed or any advice you'd give guys and some of the things that you used.
EXPERIENCES ENLISTING
Gavin 05:19
Go into to join the military the reason why I chose the Air Force first and foremost is I was talking to my own buddies, my parents, friends, complete strangers with veteran tats on and they all started saying the same thing and I'm talking about World War II veterans to Vietnam Green Berets to you know, fresh after September 11. Navy SEALs and they're like what I did in the military, I want to change for the world. But if I could do it again, I would try doing that in the Air Force because you're not operating 24/7/365 like what do you come home to and they always said that you know the Air Force as the best food the best basis. But they're like they're like, do it in the Air Force, dude, do what you think is right in the Air Force because you come home to the Air Force to have the best deployments, deployment schedules and blah, blah, blah, blah. So I went to my parents, my dad's a cop, my mom is a firefighter. When they're like, well go do something cool. Like you're not going to the way I am. You're not going to enjoy your life if you're just a cook or financier not to speak ill of those, but it wouldn't have held my attention. So I went into the recruiter. Like what's the coolest, most challenging thing in the Air Force? And he's like, oh, you'll never make it. And I was like, I'll do that. I didn't know what it was.
Aaron 06:51
You had me You have me a condescending to me. Now I can't do something.
Trent 07:00
Got a tally of how many people have been told that they're never going to make it when they go?
Aaron 07:04
Everybody? Yeah, we need to write like a an FAQ on what to say to people when they tell you inevitably that you're not going to make it. It's so common like, I don't understand.
Brian 07:14
I wonder the people that were told that versus the people that weren't told that like, Who made it? I feel like all of us are told that so we had to make it.
Aaron 07:21
One thing that can be certain is the person telling you that was probably told that and they were right. Like, that's the only the only thing that I could possibly think of it that they're heard about something else. It's terrible.
Gavin 07:32
Well as an instructor and I know some of you guys know this, you're never going to make it. You know, like just quit now. The person who makes it at the end you're like, you told me I wasn't going to make it and like, I don't even remember who you are. Was it What's your roster number? I don't even know your name. Yeah, you look so much different with not having MRSA all over your face. Yeah, A&S is gross so but anyway going through INDOC which is of course way harder, just little shit talking of course.
Aaron 08:08
Before you before you go on, were you in that area where you had to developer like have you worked? Did you work with somebody before you got in? Or was it all you
Gavin 08:14
Nope. The McNealy brothers, they had just graduated PJ you and they are doing grass I was pretty lucky but they really just kind of like smoke the shit out of me and try to get me to quit and I didn't. And then that's all the development I had. We had nothing special in basic besides all being in the super flight, but there's no special diet no special training. Cervantes came and talked to us like two weeks before we graduated basic and basically tell us that we weren't going to make it but Pararescue is super cool and kind of you know, rebalances but there is nothing like it is now and then after you graduated basic. You had the weekend and then you went straight into INDOC just nine week warrior camp. But so a lot of these guys I hear saying like, I never had quit my mind. Like, I think it's a lie. Like I grew up, like very comfortable middle class, like if I didn't make it through and like I had options. And so quitting crossed my mind, like, all the time.
Aaron 09:22
Oh yeah, I know you guys have had this feeling. But have you ever been on just the longest run of your life and you just wish through no fault of your own that your leg would break? And you just be like, Listen, I didn't do anything. It was just a thing that the doctors missed. It was a stress fracture that never healed right and it just broke mid run. I'm going to go take it to the hospital.
Gavin 09:39
Like looking for those validating injuries. All the time like holding my breath back. This sucks. I should just pop and quit. But I would you know, this run this heinous. Like I don't like it but I would. I would think about it. Quitting for so long that by time I even probably even got close. The event was already over and I was like, maybe I'll quit on the next one.
Aaron 10:09
you distracted yourself by making up quitting in your head.
Gavin 10:13
And the Yeah, the only thing that they prepped me for the McNealy brothers were like, Look, you're going to make it like INDOC, even though they'll test you and everything like you will get stronger over the nine and a half weeks that it takes. You just have to show up every morning and not quit.
Peaches 10:31
I wonder if that's you know, so many people quit after the end of an event. You ever noticed that were that you know, you're just in the pain cave. And they just they asked for a quitter. Never get it? And then at the end of the pool session, dude gets up and grabs the bullhorn and quits.
Aaron 10:53
We had a guy No kidding, like getting ready to carry the luggage over after my own. I was a young Airman and he's like, ready to quit. What are you doing? We're done. We're going home to get a shower and go to bed dude, like they're not screwing with us anymore. Like we're done. Like this whole week thing. It's over. Like, I'm not screwing with you like we're done. He's like, nope. So as my made up, he's like, I'm out of here dog
Brian 11:12
Actually have a theory about all this stuff ASVAB scores, because I used to do Student Affairs stuff whenever I was an instructor before I became the instructional supervisor. But when I look at the people that quit, anyone that was over 95 would quit on them in the morning, because they'd be overthinking it. And they'd be like, just contemplating what was going on and they couldn't figure out they couldn't find a pattern. Those people that were like, in the lower end, they quit during the pool session because they're impulsive. So I don't know where you I don't want you to share this unless you're comfortable with sharing, you're as bad score. So you're still people in the middle of the ones that make it because you can't be too smart.
Gavin 11:58
Yeah, I would I would. And I didn't think about quitting like every event, you know, they're all like not that hard at times. But what I did tell myself and when I do try to tell students this is I was like, Look, no matter what happens, this day will end this course will end no matter what happens it will end. However, when you go back to the dorms, whether it's at the end of the day or death, of course, you're going to go back as a quitter. Or as a graduate and a graduate of that day, a graduate of the course like it doesn't matter. But no matter what happens, you're still in AETC. People lose their perspective all the time. Like that's why when the Cadre tell you have the contract until you have 30 minutes to put on your shoes and time and it go by like this, but you tell someone to hold their breath for one minute and it's an eternity. So just not losing perspective of time, and how it will end and how you want to end that day. No matter what happens. We'll Always be under your control yeah so I went from thinking about like quitting on every event and I kind of he's you know waking up at 3am to go get your shit pushed in...
Aaron 13:33
Great guys. Well so you took that all the way through you know your INDOC experience and getting through that and not being acquit obviously you were graduate during those days thanks to your middle you know, middle of the road ASVAB scores and an ability to get wrapped up in an event but take us through the pipeline man What was your What was your favorite school so you got out of end dock and then I'm assuming you just hit like the normal progression you went straight to dive and then in some order airborne, SERE, freefall.
Gavin 13:57
Dive school was the first time that I felt like his go through INDOC and immediately after you graduate INDOC, the INDOC stories start just like any other type to fun where it sucks when you're going through it but it's your favorite memory and it's one you talked about forever but I still feel like even now these days because after and so you go through pre dive and then to dive school which you either going through the Air Force when the Army or whatever but I feel like dive school may have been one of the most fun schools but I didn't really feel like I was in the pipeline yet because dive school still had a high enough attrition rate or you get setback or whatever. And I had so much fun and dive school in Panama City Beach, but after I got through dive school, and I got to Albuquerque like the capital of the PJ conedom, like that's where I felt like I was in it now and that's where I really started turning and I like I that's where I probably had the most buy it is when I got through INDOC I got through dive school and I arrived Albuquerque like in the middle of the night and there's snow on the ground and like nice like, this is where I'm at for the next like, you know, two years just so was that?
Aaron 15:03
Was that your moment? Or was there a time in training where you're like, holy crap, I might be doing this PJ thing for real like this might actually be a possibility?
Gavin 15:10
That was after PJU. So I made it through all the hard schools on the first try, but like I got set back in airborne.
Aaron 15:23
Wait, wait, why did you get set back? Did you have your feet knees apart? Or do you know how many you know how many people you want to talk about ASVAB scores of people fall on a military aircraft? I got some uncomfortable numbers to share with you my friend. Yeah.
Gavin 15:39
Do you guys know Jake? Yeah so Jake Bronco not to name full names and social security numbers. But we were playing rock paper scissors in the harness shed. And this is like our second day jumping. So I already had three jumps in the bag. And we're playing rock paper scissors then the first sergeant Like airborne and so what happens the whole 800 people in the hangar like all look and he's like you Air Force with like just the most like disturbing tone. And he's like he's on the far end like the second story up on the little black hat ledge like you. And so Jake Roscoe and I both stand up and he says that his I was doing the airborne shuffle like 100 yards to him that I rolled my eyes at him. And I was like, I mean, did you go on probably after he said, Okay, I did not at the time he was accusing me for. They told me afterwards because I graduated after immediately after my second job. I didn't go through the airborne graduation. The blackouts are just like you can leave if you want. So I called the traveling lady and like, Hey, can I go back to Albuquerque now? She's like, Yeah, sure. So I just left in the middle of the night and the blackouts are like yeah, that was kind of a little extreme on his part, but they only sent me back a weekend so I didn't have to go back through the whole thing. So you just bounced
Peaches 17:12
That's actually a better story than the hey I got recycled on airborne I think that's actually pretty cool
Gavin 17:18
They gave me blood wings and stuff is that's that gave me some buy in you know.
Aaron 17:48
That's awesome. That's the world we're living in. Fantastic. What was your when you were in Albuquerque, right. So you're kind of feeling that vibe and getting in your flow as it were down in Albuquerque. What was a What was the biggest struggle in Albuquerque was a paramedic for you or was it a different was it you know, the apprentice course what was it?
Gavin 18:07
The biggest struggle was the apprentice course for me because by time you get there and you know I know you guys know this but for the listeners like that PJU and you get your Bray like you're, you're like done after that. It's not like the controller like SR pipeline where it's just like these mountain ridges of like, you're an operator, you're not an operator, you're an operator, you're not an operator like it's just the PJ pipeline you're in PJU I could just get this knocked out. I'm in it. I've done it. I'm done. I get to go to a team. Again. It's awesome. But I got set back. Well, no, I actually was a part of three PJU teams. I got set back on dirt med on my first team. And then on my second team I made all the way to water ops. And it is like one of those things How standards change but it's just the luck of the draw. But when I was doing water Ops, I exited in I had the heeds stank on my right leg, which at the time was like this huge thing even though now none of us think twice about it. And I did like a 90 degree turn and then I like turned back so I'd like to do it again. But then I did another 180 turn. Yeah, like fail get out. Yeah, but thankfully, the CADRE there, you know, we're like, hey, like, he's a good guy. He's blah, blah, blah. We'll give him another shot because at the time, three PJ like you only got the one setback and then you were out. So I was once again very lucky. And then on my, my third PGU team, I got to join the last one that already gone through like dirt med and land navigation. So it wasn't like a full three teams. I just got set back to the junior team. And that's when I finally graduated. You talk about like a moment of pride like putting on your brain. You're done and we have like all the awesome cadre there and the I don't want to spoil it but you know you're going through F TX and they normally come up with some cool way the FTX is your final field training exercise and they come up with some cool way to like present you your brace and so for us they're like all right last minute mission like you guys just have to deliver this resupply to this team on top of the mountain so we spent like five hours carrying this heavy ass box off the stupid fucking mountain. And everyone is just at each other's throats. And then we get up there and all the cars are out there and then the kids now back down the mountain, you know. And so they're like, open the box and we open the box and there's like a bunch of berets in there. And we're like, oh my god, like whoa, like we did we realized that at first then we all like started you know, little tears of joy maybe hit here and there but I didn't cry just have something in both my eyes. That's when I was like, man, I did it. It's awesome. And then like I said, my first deployment, I was right in the fight right away. And so I had a lot of career field validation that some of the new guys aren't necessarily getting these days right now, but whether you're about to come in or you just got your beret you've been in a couple years and you're starting to like lose hope like the fight will happen. Like you're in special operations. You're the first people to get in the fight normally in any kind of war louder, quiet, and like it will happen just when you're, you know, your God decides that or you decide or your boss decides, like if it's if it's your time like it That's going to happen and bringing it on the real. No, like a FOB Plite out there and Albuquerque, like Jason ply, died on his first deployment, Danny. And then you have people like chief McCaskill who went through 20 years of a military career and crushed it. And then, you know, and unfortunately was killed on the end of his deployment. So, don't, don't fall prey to this immediate gratification culture that we've all started to be living in, like, put in the hard work. And I'm not saying stick with something you don't agree with, but you're never going to get any mission. If you get out there. You're never going to get any mission if you quit.
FIRST TEAM
Peaches 22:43
That's good. And it kind of, it's a good transition for us because I want to I wanted to ask you, since we've been focusing on the pipeline, and PJ, you once you got to your first duty station, like what was that like? You already said that you are on back to back deployments and deploying on an average of every year. So what were some of those deployments like for you?
Gavin 23:06
They were awesome. I have my first deployment you're doing, you know, a couple missions every day. Sometimes you would land and not even have time to call your wife or your girlfriend or your family because you're trying to shove food in your mouth. restock the Well, yeah, Aaron, you were there.
Aaron 23:24
Yeah, worst deployment of all time is the team leader. There was a high here a real piece of work.
Gavin 23:31
And so like, like it was just you were in it. And even if you weren't doing missions that day, that camaraderie between everyone like it was everything in bargained for and then even on these, you know, stupid deployments like to Kuwait. Like, there was 0.0 chance of us getting a mission in Kuwait. So we just all focused on working out becoming better nurse skills and everything like that, and I have My favorite deployments, my least favorite deployments, but I have pulled something out of every deployment that has made me better. And you deploy the same guys over and over again, you get closer.
Peaches 24:16
Well, that's good. But I mean, like, so those deployments, fantastic learning experience, what were the different mission sets that you accomplish, like the different roles that you had on each of those deployments?
Gavin 24:29
So on my first two deployments, I was a team member. So I was just worried about and I was with the PJ team. So I was just worried about medicine and being in shape and I'm told, on my middle two deployments, I was an element leader and I was also getting my like instructor upgrade and I started bringing up the younger PJ's under me now to get better as well as developing my leadership skills. That was what I was like Kuwait and Africa, where I was an element leader. And Africa was awesome because you'd get to go work with a tier one guys and you know, other places. And then you'd come back to the horn where we're all at. And you get to continue being like a PJ element leader, and he do like these long ship pickups, and still working on medicine. And then my last few deployments were as a team leader. And I think being a team leader is like the most awesome thing. Because it's not like in the Army or Navy, where if you're a team leader or Troop Chief, you have like all these people underneath you, and you're like in an admin role, but as a PJ team leader, there's like six guys under you on a team and you come up with your own training schedule and your missions get launched, and you make the calls that the pilots and you're still so involved at this upper echelon leadership level. And then on my last deployment, I started off as like the, we call it the TRS Team Leader basically the guys that are just going to get farmed out. But I basically went there made sure all the young PJ's were squared away with gear questions. Because over the course of all these other deployments, I got to work with the Navy SEALs, the Green Berets, the French, the Polish, everyone like that. And I will just get, you know, farmed out here and there. So I pushed all my guys out to the ODA teams. And then I took the last team with one of my youngest guys, and gave him the ominous dominance after I had him set up all the MED Rucks, then I and then I sent him to another team. And that's, that's when I stopped being a team leader on this last deployment. And I was just a PJ on an ODA team, no team member, a team leader. I was just my job was there to be the technical rescue specialist and enabler medic like I don't, I don't care. You can call me whatever name you want.
Trent 27:02
I was just we talked about this and I've talked about this with some other guys does it ever surprise you how fast in our community guys go from the new guy to like the salty older guy getting the younger guys ready? Because that's all I could think about during your stories.
Gavin 27:15
Oh yeah it's insane. It we call the big three it's Moody, Tucson, and Vegas active duty units. That's a puppy mill. Like you get you get the most new guys out of any of the units. You bring them up to hopefully get a deployment or to squeeze data from, but a lot of times within a year or two you're either starting your element leader upgrade or you are an element leader depending on how squared away you are. But yeah, you get you get salty real quick.
Peaches 27:44
Do you think that the pipeline that you went through with PJ you and everything Do you think that that prepared you for the deployments since you kind of went immediately after graduating?
Gavin 27:57
I think mine did. Because My pipeline had the flavor of the CASEVAC Pedro missions. That's what all the scenarios are based around. That's what the stories of the country we're telling we're all a part of. And then my first appointment was right there. So for me, it was a perfect puzzle piece fit. I think these days you have a lot more experience, thankfully at the school houses. But the combat kind of ebbs and flows. And I think during this past couple years, the combat is kind of like gone down a little bit. But that's what I talked about, like, the pipeline is still preparing people accurately. But when you get out to the team, you don't get a chance to capitalize on it right away.
Peaches 28:46
Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, I get what you're coming from. I so I know for me for my first deployment, it was an enormous learning curve. I mean that I couldn't believe how much I thought I knew and then where I went to as like as I'm going through a deployment so do you feel that I'll put you on the spot here Do you feel that the pipeline prepared you better or that the unit prepared you better what did you learn where what location did you learn more at?
Gavin 29:18
Oh the unit. You could you know go to the best college in the world but you're going to learn entertain most of what you know from your first job after that point. The I always say how there's not a difference between ST and Rescue and I'll fight that with the most passionate of them. However, as early is the early young PJ into a rescue unit. Yeah, when you go to a Rescue unit is your first station. You learn that like I can rely on my other fellow new guys to kind of help me through this. But when you go to an ST for your first unit, there like not only are you piece of shit, but also you're responsible for everyone and you need to learn how to do this and you also need to learn how to give yourself a ticket to fly out there like in an ST grown up like I don't think anywhere and PJ you do they prepare you with time and PJ you you're a member of a team is a new guy to rescue unit you're going through green team or whatever is a member of a team then you're a team member and you have all these people to bounce questions on. But when you go to ST and I think that's one of the hardest ones to start off at for a new guy is because that's where you have the ultimate responsibility on you and no one's going to help you besides maybe the Controller who's already even saltier because of his difficult pipeline.
TEAM GUY TO INSTRUCTOR
Brian 30:41
Yeah totally agree whenever you get thrown into that that makes and you just get a PJU like you said I want to that was one of my first deployments is you're like up there with the Rangers and you're out there with everyone they already doubt you because your Air Force dude and they're like, what is this guy got? And then you got to prove yourself and make sure you have all the right equipment and checklists. It definitely is difficult. But I want to lead that into our next question. So you're doing all this stuff. It was awesome. You got all your everything you wanted out of becoming a PJ in Vegas and a little known fact Also, we're in the same unit but like we talked about in previous podcasts, we never even got to really see each other most of the time I'd see you in the bar in the team room bar. And we chat about when you guys were, you know, downrange or whatever and then you guys would take off again or we take off. But once that ended, you had to transition to something just like me, I went to the schoolhouse, down at lackland to work with on INDOC unfortunately that was going away when you were joining up. So what made you kind of want to go down to lackland and work at A&S.
Gavin 31:51
I really enjoy sharing my stories and I think that it's something that comes natural to me and it also helps me cope in a way, you know, by telling my tales and I benefited a lot from hearing people like Aaron that you know, not only talked about all their triumphs, but also all of their, like screw ups in the Not a lot of people are saying that these days because even on social media, like operators are flawless, you know, perfect practitioners of patient thing and another key word I couldn't. Yeah, yeah, like people mess up all the time, especially the special operators and especially the new PJ supporting an ODA team for the first time and you understand how you have to taper that so that you know they still have confidence in you. But if you go in there 100% arrogant you're going to get someone killed, you know, either yourself or someone else. So I like telling all of my stories, even if they're embarrassing or not. And when I was telling this to man, if you want to, you know coach, teach train mentor, you can either go to Albuquerque, or you can go to Lackland. I knew and you know, some of you guys know about my past I won't bring up but I was done with Albuquerque, I max that town out. And I was like, I've never been to Texas. So and that's why I went down there and A&S there is like, there's pretty much no I sound but there's pretty much no more meaningful interaction between the CADRE and the students at A&S like when I was going through INDOC, the instructors would be like, play through this heinous thing and then tell you why they did it. But and then new A&S model. Everything's so regimented, so structured for good reason, but it also like sacrifices, like we can't tell the students why we just made them do this because it's part of the game, but also because we just don't have time. And so I wasn't getting that just basically smoking these people telling them what garbage they were then Selecting at the end of this course, and these guys don't even know why. And I never got a chance to tell them like, hey, you're a great guy, this, this is XYZ and they all get debriefed at the end if you make it. And I'm by no means not trying to talk total shit about A&S, but I wasn't getting that fulfillment, like, you know you did in Albuquerque or you did at INDOC.
Brian 34:26
Yeah, that was one of my favorite things was being able to mentor and, you know, talk to the guys and at the end of the day, but okay, I smoke the crap out of you right now, today. And this is why this is what you did. This is what you did. And we went through a whole list throughout the day, especially being the proctor and like, being able to see the team and stuff. And, yeah, I don't know exactly the backstory of A&S and everything that goes on. beyond that. But I think that mentorship is important, which is why we're doing this whole podcasting so you guys can reach out to us and talk to us about experiences and you guys realize because I'm sure Gavin you felt like man, I'm just a monster and all the students think I'm just a monster I'm just freaking smoking for no reason I can't explain that it's for a good reason like I want them to know that I care about them because all the instructors do care about the guys that end up making it in the end because we want those guys to be better than we ever were. We want the right guys to be with our teammates that are going to be deployed downrange and everything like that. So we care about the end result and is it is hard to just go there torture people and then go home without saying hey, this is why I did it.
Gavin 35:35
Yeah, like PJs, Controllers, SR. Like it's the most chill awesome group of people ever in any way. Like, you know, like, I didn't know Peaches before this at all. But you know, Aaron introduced us and just talking with him and just like immediately connection, you know and I feel like that was in part fostered in the pipeline through interaction With cadre and other team members, but there, there's no time for that anymore. And like I wanted to be able to get back in I tried transferring to Texas like, pre-dive, or, you know, stuff like that it just wasn't panning out. I tried coming down here to Tampa, in the I forgot what the positions call. It's like some PR planning position here at the SOCOM headquarters that wasn't available at the time. And then I tried going the SOR route, the Special Operations Recruiter where you get to know keep your beret and all your pays. And really just, that would be awesome for me because I love telling people why they need to do this and get them to come in and being successful and then backed away. And part of it, you know, was maybe command level stuff. And so I'm like, alright, well, I'm getting out there like why Yeah, now. Like, I'm not just going to like sit here and hate my life. Not that I hated it. But I wanted to find more meaning and then I knew that You could Palace Chase and Palace Front getting into the Reserve, you know part of this and so I started chasing that down called out to Cocoa Beach and you guys want to get into that?
ACTIVE DUTY TO RESERVES
Trent 37:10
Yeah actually that's not his next question you know how and how intense was the application process did they look at your hair you know and then look at it in all phases to make sure that you're good enough to be a PJ?
Gavin 37:38
Yeah, I sent him older photos of when I was clean shaven with a full head of hair and then a mongrel pup showed up. Yeah, the application process. If you're active duty, the you have to go to an in service recruiter and then service recruiter is a reservist or guardsman on full time orders so they can work all the time to help you out. And then you can either basically Palace Chase or Palace Front. Palace Front is where you sign up for the Guard or Reserve. And then when you're you just you're in the next day you're in Guard or Reserve. And so Palace Chase is where up to a year out so if I had a year left on my active duty service contract, I could call a unit and the Guard or Reserve maybe like I want to give you my last year of active duty service and there's for every month or every X amount of months they accept you owe them like another year of service so there's a tradeoff just like with anything. And so I Palace Chased because I was trying to get out of Texas quicker than it Palace Front. So I started really honing in on the units all the PJ Guard Reserve units are awesome. But there was really only one that I wanted to go to. So my girlfriend identifies Florida like as home I love Florida who doesn't love Florida? And so, like Alaska, that's awesome. As far as PJ units that remain, gainfully employed stateside as well, there's so many but I narrowed it down to either Alaska because those guys are operating all the time. And then Cocoa Beach with the NASA missions and stuff down here. And so I had mentally I had already ran down the rabbit hole completely as far as like a Pararescue. Not that I'm done with that, but I'm like, there's so much that goes to this array. There are other aspects of it. Like I want civilian rescues. I want Rams jumps, I want space shuttle stuff. Cocoa Beach, not only for the location, obviously, but also for just they, I think they have, like the broadest mission set of any of the of the PJ units and I know it's arguable and I'm not trying to sound argumentative about it, but that's where my mindset was. I was like, if I want to explore every corner of this beret, like I need and then a bunch of my you know, of course, a bunch of my buddies were down here as well and stuff like that. And so, like all the boys are there and it's in the fun and the sand and the sun, you're like, Are you kidding me? Like, of course it goes down there. So, the first step for me is talking to my supervisor. And then I, he's like, Alright, yep, we accept this. The commander had approved it, my new commander come in at that point. And so he approved it and he's like, I will call down there and get yourself brought on because for any of the units, you a bro system, but you still need their backing to make it happen in the way that it should. So I called the Chief Z who just retired. Did on the phone interview with him. He's like, well, you sound awesome. And then he made around of calls asking about me. You know, like, I know he called. I know he called Neese, you know, asked him. He says, like, like, do you know Gavin Fisher? And he's like, do I know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's like, don't hire. So then they approve you, you know, it's not on paper, anything like, yeah, we want you down here. We'll help you on our end with the paperwork. And this is for any of the Guard or Reserve units, you just don't apply to go there. They want to know who you are, because you're going to be working there potentially for a very long time. It's not like active duty where even if your like your love, you move around every couple years. They really invest in everyone from the operators to the support. And so they really want to make sure that they're hiring the right person.
Trent 41:49
But I do want to make a point and that point is the calls still happen on active duty. It's a very small community and people know you. So if you think you're walking into a situation with a clean sheet of paper, you're probably incorrect. The calls have been made.
Gavin 42:07
Yeah, you never go into a unit in active Guard Reserve being a complete stranger. for better for worse either your buddies know you or the bosses know your reputation for good or bad is known but I think they're just more of a premium on it in the Guard or Reserve when your Palace Chasing or Palace Fronting and so I went through that the paperwork bad. And for me, I had all these waivers that I needed to get not only for a cool guy shaving waiver, of course, but then they the paperwork takes like two weeks to get approved, disapproved or just sent back to you. So every time I had to fix a problem, I would have to wait two weeks just to see if I messed anything up. And you talk about like very stressful way to do things. You know, they're like, Alright, well, everything looks good. And we can see this as a shaving waiver and we can see in the system, but we need an MFR from the shaving wave. And on my way, this is like AFPCHQ. And I was like what? And so of course that happens. send it back into like, Oh, well during this process, your security clearance was valid. But now it's lapse. And I'm like, Well, yeah, because it's been like three months. Like it was good when we started it that I needed to rehack the security clearance, which you guys know is just fascinating. going places you've lived since you were born for 10 years. Yeah, does your mother's womb have an address? But the paperwork was so heinous. It almost made me like just stay in Texas, which is maybe what they wanted. But I follow through with that finally got down to Cocoa Beach and this has been the best decision of my life.
Brian 43:53
I just want to hit that one real quick. So you went from active duty over to reserve a lot of guys questions that I get are, Is it possible to go over and why would you want to go do that? I know other people are chasing, like, some kind of degree or if they're staying at home with family for some kind of reason. What do you think is the biggest reason why you want to go and what do you think is the biggest difference between being active and being reserved?
Gavin 44:20
Now, so my main motivators personally and professionally, were family, like, you know, you know, going to be starting a family with my girlfriend and you know, escalating, you know, that relationship and stuff and also my college degree. Operationally, more on the personal side is pretty much just family, family and self-education and bettering myself for life after the military. Professionally, is a team leader. And as a Technical Sergeant, you know, you put on Master an active duty unit and you could still do the job or you could be riding a desk, you know, but on the reserved And guard side. Like there's still like Senior Master sergeants out there getting it like on the on the ground like your operational life is extended. And so I still feel like I got a lot of fight left in me and I still want to do awesome stuff. You know hoodrat shit with my friends. Yeah, of course. Hashtag and so that that's professionally why I did it. And on the Reserve side, going, talking to the people that are in the military yet, what's really cool is that all these Guard and Reserve bases have like hiring windows that they'll bring you guys coupling valve my A&S experience. I can also help better prepare people that Cocoa Beach wants to hire to be like, Oh yeah, this is what you need to focus on this we need to do or hey, maybe this isn't the guy or maybe you're not ready in this aspect. And I mean, now I just can be employed so much more and get back to that. Coaching training mentoring that I that I want to do so much and actually do. The reason the reason why I went is personally family, professionally staying in the fight and exploring more of what it is to be a Pararescueman and doing NASA recovery missions and ramps jumps to the open water and of course going back to Afghanistan or Africa or wherever.
Trent 46:24
So can we get a Guard or Reservists that's unhappy in the GUARD next time because I'm really tired of all these guys telling great stories.
Aaron 46:33
Yeah, I have I have a better shot of fine and Bigfoot up here in the Pacific Northwest and we do somebody who's disgruntled in Guard or Reserves.
Gavin 46:39
Yeah, I'm so happy.
ADVICE TO CANDIDATES
Brian 46:42
All right, let's bring it to our last customer question. We always ask dudes that have been, you know, through INDOC through a bunch of stuff like you have. What would you say if for those guys and girls that are out there training, training their butts off on the pool and all that now that they're open? What would you say that they need to keep in mind And what is your best tool? Best piece of advice for getting through the pipeline? And then being successful not only as a PJ, but whatever else as CCT in life? What is your piece of advice to them?
Gavin 47:13
Well, in order to be in the pipeline, you got to make it through A&S my single piece of advice that that I've known to come to A&S I think you need to be able to rock 15 miles with a 50 pound pack at a 15 minute per mile pace. If you can do that, then you'll be ready because it's not the timed rucks that get you it's the ruck to the ruck that gets you and then guess what you do. You do a ruck to the timed ruck and then you're tired after that, and then you're going to ruck back from the ruck you just did and rucking is murdering people these days, like people that are they can swim the cups, like their feet and their knees are just given out and they're not used to it. Even though prep tries to prepare them. I think they're coddled a little bit too much but for some reason, when you get to A&S in your in these fields settings in your arms, like the bottoms of your feet, like you're going to get trench footie, like you need to be rucking. And then that'll get you through A&S if you can get to the NA s statistically speaking at a 50/50 shot of making it, either your select or non-select, but you have to be able to ruck in today's game, there's not as much of a premium on the running of the swimming as there was when we went through our models that we did. Like if you can crush rucks, that you just significantly up your stock. So once again, I recommend a 15 mile ruck with at least a 50 pound pack and a 15 minute per mile pace. If you can do that and show up at A&S you're, I think you're going to do pretty good.
Peaches 48:43
So as long as you're able to do that you're not recommending that they do it once a week kind of thing is shown as a culmination or a capstone be able to do this 15 miler or 50 pounds.
Gavin 48:57
Yeah. As soon as soon as you check that box You don't you do not need to do it every day but be able to check it at least once. And then A&S is just a month of full send. Yeah. And then as far as motivation in the pipeline, I feel like social media has disservice to a lot of people, you the new listeners. So the future cones, you need to make sure that this is what you want to do want to. This is just my view, like if you want to kick in doors and shoot people in the face, go join the Army or the Navy, because what an Air Force Special Operator is, is truly like the jack of all trades, whether you're a Controller, SR, or PJ, like yes, you're going to be kicking in doors and you know, shooting people in the face until something happens. The first people off the triggers and onto the radios or the medicine are the Air Force guys, but You're going to be just as tired as the Army guys that you just rocked in with, you're going to be just as you know, blown up and confused as the Army guys you just got blown up with, but it's your job as the Controller, the PJ to continue pushing forward to accurately drop those bombs to accurately give those drugs like you're, you're I believe that only Air Force Special Operations jobs truly begin once the shit has hit the fan generally steel just keeps pulling the trigger which is awesome and you need that to be happening but it's the Air Force guys that not only you need to do all this stuff but then you also need to facilitate great thing make sure you know you're getting into because there's so much more to Air Force Spec Ops than just shooting a fucking gun. Like you need to be smart. You need to be intelligent, charismatic, you will even if you're the best PJ or Combat Controller in the world, you will never do your job if the team doesn't like you. Like he is long as there is the book The Mission, The Men, and Me book on military leadership. There's also How To Win Friends And Influence People. Like you need to, you need to be a people person, because you're going to show up to these teams as a random Air Force guy, and then you're going to need to become their friend in order to do your job.
Peaches 51:13
Yep, so as soon as you show up, they automatically don't trust you or until you're able to prove that you are, you know, worthy, then you're just you're just another dude that they have to worry about.
Gavin 51:28
Yeah, 100% so I know that was compressing that all in. If you want to be a PJ, make sure you know what PJ's do stateside, operationally, everything like that. A lot of people discredit TACPs. But if you just want to drop bombs, TACPs is a great job because that's all TACPs do. Combat Controllers have the whole like other side of the world mission? You know, where you're also dropping bombs. You're also setting up airfields also running planes. And a lot of people are just like, well I don't want to do any of that. It's like well, you should have been a TACP then. So be able to rock research, what you want to do is to get off Instagram and actually crack a book and reach to reach out to friends. So that's my advice.
Brian 52:12
Yeah, I think those are all super valid and a lot of things that I've told people that reach out to me via messaging on Instagram, which is one of the good ways to do use Instagram don't just read like all the bought the Bios that are there, like all the cool action stories or whatever, but reach out to us. That's why we're here to answer questions for you guys. And we'll be real with you. Just like Gavin is right now we'll tell you exactly if you don't if you want to go shoot people and you want to that is all you want to go do is shoot cool guns and do that kind of stuff and go do a Navy SEAL job, go do the Green Berets job, Ranger whatever. But this job in the Air Force just like Gavin was talking about exploring all the different aspects that PJ's have to offer because jack of all trades, you know, you can do the military side of the rescue. Or you can do the civilian side and you can jump on there's guys to jump on. cruise ships or jump onto whatever kind of RAMZ mission which is a boat that you throw out of aircraft and you inflate it jive up to the boat and save a dude. So there's plenty of different options that you can explore in PJ. So that's one of the things that all of us love about our jobs is being able to do something different every single day continue to challenge ourselves. So just like Gavin was saying, I'm just going to wrap it up real quick. And we'll go to your last thoughts here and open up for you guys. final questions. So Gavin, like you said, You've done a crap ton from Vegas, deploying multiple times to combat zones from pretty much grown up from being a pup up to Team Leader, like you said and technical rescue specialists in charge of a bunch of dudes all in Vegas and then went over to the A&S. And were able to take that experience and transfer it over into what you're doing over there and Patrick, which is, I think invaluable because just being in that position to help mentor guys really makes you get you some introspection into what you believe in what you really value in life. So it seems like you're already doing that, which is why we have you here. I know you briefly mentioned being blown up, we'll save that for a different time. And we'll share it go into that kind of story. We want to have a Storytime podcast, maybe like as an extra or something like that. You guys let us know if you want us to you guys listeners out there if you want to have us open up for Storytime we'll bring different dudes on to tell their kind of stories. So yeah, overall though. This guy Gavin Thank you for coming on you're a total stud representation of what a PJ should be. And like he said, super charismatic. I remember he is always the dude in the bar telling stories and just always captures everyone's attention whenever he's up there speaking about whatever is going on. So again, super awesome PJ and thank you again for coming on. Open it to you guys. And you final questions, thoughts remarks? Anything?
Aaron 55:03
No I'm good man. Gavin Are you are you cool with having people hit you up on your IG if you want if you if you want to have them follow your whatever throw your ID handle out there.
Gavin 55:10
Oh, it's a Wait, what is it? DJfishticks. Yeah, yeah. So it's DJfishsticks hit me up. I'm terrible at texting and responding. But I'll get to it eventually.
Brian 55:44
Thanks, guys. Well, thanks again for you guys for listening. And you guys can always hit us up and anytime we're here for you. If you have any questions or you want to see anything on the podcast, make sure you hit us up. We get set up right now to have up the shop again. So you guys can order up those gray man shirts and we sell the sticker packs and everything shops going to be up in real soon. So make sure you go ahead and check that out. And if you guys need anything any point time, make sure you hit us up, follow us. Make sure you leave us a comment five star review over on Apple podcasts. We really appreciate it. And thank you again for your support. You guys go out there and each breath.
TLDR: The pipeline is tough, but there is a wide variety of opportunities in the Special Warfare arena. Be honest with yourself, don’t quit, be patient, be ready.
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