Becoming a Combat Rescue Officer
EPISODE 25
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WELCOME TO THE TEAM ROOM FOR OUR FIRST EVER CRO INTERVIEW. ON THIS EPISODE THE ONES READY CREW TRIES TO HOLD ON AS JMAC TAKES US FOR A RIDE.
INTRO
Brian (00:00:28):
What's happening everybody, Brian Silva for the Ones Ready podcast today we're bringing to you what you've been asking for a really long time, the CRO episode, but not just any CRO. We're going to be talking to Jonathan Mackenzie, Captain type. He's a prior enlisted PJ who is going to be talking to you about his transition from being a PJ for a really long time to transitioning into a CRO and what that's like. He's been at a lot of the Phase II selections so he has a lot of knowledge to drop on you guys; not only from his prior experiences and many deployments, but also from the Phase II side of the house and what you should be expecting, what is expected of you whenever you get to a phase two and to get to that CRO position. So thank you guys again for listening to the podcast. We appreciate all your messages and comments down in YouTube. Make sure you check out the website Onesready.com. Lots of resources there. And check out our YouTube channel if you want to see some of the you know, the hand gestures that we do, Peaches knife, hand, you could see all of our awesome backgrounds that we have and check that out. So make sure you go there. Like subscribe. We also want to thank you know, Eberlestock, Alpha Brew and Strike Force energy. You guys can still use the ONESREADY codes, get all those awesome things. We don't get any money from it, but we're giving you guys those discounts. And if you guys have a business that's like that and you want to support people that are doing this thing and trying to go out for Special Warfare, give them a discount for an awesome product. Hit us up. All right, so let's get into JMac. Here we go back. Pretty much all of us go back a long time from our England days over a decade ago now with a JMac and we've known him pretty well. He's a really fun guy to be around and we're glad that he took his time to come out on the podcast and spread some knowledge with you guys. So without further ado, if you don't mind introducing yourself and let us know a little bit about you.
JMac (00:02:45):
Hey, I appreciate you guys having me on. Anytime I talk to anybody this type of format, do a quick disclaimer. Hey man, my opinion is just that it's me, it's raw. I'm not going to hold back and we'll give you ways to get ahold of me afterwards if you guys have questions. But at the end of the day I always get asked, Hey, tell me about yourself, who you are, what you do, things like that. I love this question because I've never given the same answer twice. I think we're all in that same boat, but I'll say like, you know, I'm just like, I'm just a dude that gets to work with and hang out with like-minded people and do a pretty rad mission set. You know what I mean? But no, honestly going back now, I'm like 15, 16 year old kid, like fat kid stuck in the 38 year old CROs body. I'm sure that picture will serve her somewhere. But you know, it all started, this whole journey of mine basically started back because I listed in 1999, 17 years old, just not a clue what I wanted to be, who I was. But I look back and it's like, I'm sure you guys, if you watch some things or the picture will surface in my high school back in photo. Right? But like how did you know who I was? Even in high school until like my buddy was like, you know, my freshman year, Hey try out for lacrosse team. I'm like, cool dude, but I was fat. I didn't like running. But let me tell you, dude, if I, I'll be damned if I didn't run like the fastest 18.7 second hundred yard sprint, you know, during tryouts and like only to be told like, Hey man, you're basically too fat, too slow to be on the lacrosse team. And that just like flipped a switch in my brain and I bought, just lost it and then I was like, Hey, start playing football. You start doing this, that the other thing just, it's all mindset stuff, right? I think that's what all we can all agree on. Pretty much everything we do boils down to like 90 plus percent mental and you just got to put up with the suck and get through it. But like you know, 17 years old man, enlisted in the Air Force had no clue what to expect and then a man, those sexy dudes and the short shorts came to basic training and I was like, damn, like I want to do that. I think, you know what I mean? Like I like watching Rambo predator, you name it. And I came over and I was just like, okay, I'll try out. Like, you know how it was Peach back in 99, man, like you know, I don't know if you were in INDOC then or you were already treated like, did a hundred of us showed up? And it's like the rules back then. I mean, they were what were rules? You know what I mean? It's crazy. Cause like I remember the four of us pass the test two of us left over that have like, that were medically clear to do it. And then it very, very vividly remembered retired Chief Swan. I looked at him and I was like, I was like, I'm not ready for this. I'm not mature enough. I am not like, I don't know who I am, what I want to do. Like I'm not ready for this. And he just ripped me. They're like choice words that I don't even approve for. Just tore me up and down. I was like, Hey, I'll be back. You know what I mean? That's what everybody says. You're a coward. And it's crazy. Me as you know, fast forward five years after that and it's like he was, he was a group chief when he retired and I was actually CRO by then, but went off, became a C-130 engine mechanic and , it was cool job. I work with some great people, but I was just bored, I was just like, what's next? That's kind of like the mentality of I'm always like, Hey, what's the next thing I can do? I'm sure you guys are same way. Like, I'll look at something in the garage. I'm like, I'll start a project and I'd be like, I can do that better. Or it's like one more rep for this that it's just that I just don't turn it off. And then just, I've always been that way. I think I was, will be. So I made it my decision, you know, I was a four year enlistee then in 2000 I knew my window was in 2001 to cross train. So September of 2001, I was eligible, you know, we all know what happened right then and there. So I had already prepped everything back before everything was you know, done by computers. It was just like I hand carried everything as a little A1C just around all these offices and people are like, why are you cross training? But and it was actually truth be told, and I don't know if Aaron and Brian know this, I was actually cross training into Combat Control. So I'm like running around. I get all my stuff done, like, and I, and I go to the retraining office and it was like right before 9/11. And you know, I remember the girls like, Oh, you need X, Y and Z and ABC blocks of checked out. I was just like, bam, here's my folder. And she was just like, man, you took this serious, you know what I mean? Like me and my window of eligibility had it all set, had the guys, the PJ schoolwork but didn't give me the pass test. , they weren't happy that I was doing it for CCT, but truth be told at the time, I did not think I had the where with all the past paramedic. You know what I mean? Basically what happened is you know, took the PAST test, right? It was on November. I was 20 years old. November 2001, passed the PAST test and I just waited, right? Sort of a hanger and it was the January 2002 and I got an email and they were like I'm reading it, reading it from a training manager and we're like, yeah, you've been selected to go to the CCT, Indoctrination selection, whatever course at Lackland. And it was like November 2002. And I was like, hell no. And I was like talk to him. I was like, my boss was like, Hey, I need to run with PJs school real quick to talk about a couple things. Hop on my bike, rode over to the PJ school house. And I'll show you guys know that I'm like, I don't care where's the door? And I barged through and if it's not much, check them all. It just happened to be Chief Hickson's. He's like, yeah. I was like, so I'm cross-training, currently a mechanic we're in here at the C-130, so I want to go be a Combat Controller. They gave me a date for 10 months from now, you know what I mean? 11 months from now. And, I don't really want to wait. I was like, any chance I can go PJ instead? He's like, let me make a phone call. And I don't know, you probably know him Jared. He's like he called it was she Brown at the time, the functional for whatever. And he called him up and he's like, yeah, we're releasing. You guys can have them. I was just the number at that point. By the time we get back to the hangar, my bosses, I had a sticky note. He's like this PJ Chief called, He's like, how's April sound for him doc? And I was just like, audible, gulp dude. I mean, so long story short man had finished you know what's INDOC April 2002 pretty broke, you know, you know, back then like we didn't have this luxury of all the HPO program and what we've morphed into now, which is phenomenal or people like you out there trying to help people get prepped mentally physical, what have you. he whole no rule thing can keep falling back to that. You guys just got my, I got beat daily and I was broke leaving that place.
Aaron (00:11:19):
JMac, do you remember one specific, do you remember the Easter smoke session? You don't have to say the guy's name who may or may not be the commander of a unit now, but do you remember the Easter smoke session?
JMac (00:11:29):
So I do remember him well and I remember that well. And the fact that when Jolly 51 during the Memorial at Patrick, I was walking across the flight line and I said, I just, yeah, so I was a Captain, he's a Lieutenant Colonel. And time that I just fell back and I'm like, Hey man, I don't know if you remember me. He's like, I do. I was like, did you sleep okay after beat the daylights out of me eight hours. I didn't like just say one specific event. I just said, Hey man, like you still haunt my dreams, dude, like you and Robbie bean. You know, like I called him out in front of his wife at Air Force ball back at Nellis too. I said, how's it feel to be married to one of the scariest human beings on the planet? He still loves me about 10 PT shirts.
Aaron (00:12:14):
When Chief Bean down at the school house, we were standing, we were at Patrick's, so I was an instructor. At this point. We're looking at students and they're doing this monster mash and Chief Bean. So this is like, since I went through a two different time periods, Chief Bean starts telling the story about how bad he smoked an apprentice course team and does this number. Oh, Aaron, that was you, wasn't it? Yeah. You've basically been smoking me my entire career. It's awful. It's terrible.
JMac (00:12:35):
I was just like, Oh, he's a big Teddy bear. I was like, man, he just must've had a real big switch to flip because I'm still in my dreams. Long story short, graduated the pipeline 2004. As a PJ, Nellis was my first assignment, get to the 50th RQs and it was still a, it was still AFSOC at the time. Right. We hadn't done the ACC merger and...
Brian (00:12:58):
He was also in a documentary. I just feel like that was pertinent.
JMac (00:13:36):
So yeah, I'm all over the place, man. I'm even in the new, the new video this year. The, you know, kind of get the capture video they watch. So I'm just like, people are like, I don't know, I'll just hang it out there. Right. Triple S for life. So we'll get to that. The ramp of a fixed wing aircraft is always a good time. Right. So, and then just, red light goes. He was primary whose primary. Right. I don't know. But we'll talk about those fond memories after. So you know, it should be told like Nellis is great. When you look at it compared to nowadays and the, the mass production, if you will, I don't know. I don't really have to, I mean, it is what it is, right? We need the bodies and I think we have the training regimen, you know, we have the, we have the folks to support it. But back then I, I showed up to my unit and it was a 10 man team and I was the only new guy and it was, there was one of the three levels getting trained at a time. And it was just like, dude, everybody's hyper focused on JMac. And like it was just grill and I grind, you know, I showed up and I'm just bebopping in the parking lot. I'm like, damn, look at his hat in my pocket. And they were like, give me that beat your face program, this radio breakdown, this weapon, do this. And I was like, what is that weapon? What is that? Oh, that's a radio. It was just, it was like probably experienced you show up as a new guy and they just you know, intro me to the unit after about three hour smoke session and then they, the best part was, you know, they're just, they're just beating the living daylights out of me and they told me in the medroom, Hey, pack your rock. You have, you have 20 minutes back, this ruck get a treat, you know, X amount of patients and blah, blah blah. I just dealt with this for like two and a half years. What is going on? I'm just shoving stuff in a bag. I'm like, I'll just figure it out as I go. They walk in with like a, what is like a three pound jar of mayonnaise, a Heineken and a Miller light. They're like, can I have you a tablespoon? I am terrified. I'm just no rules. Right. It's all good, so what I'm saying is like heavy a tablespoon and then they had their like no light Heineken, pick one. I'm like, nah, I don't even remember. They had grabbed more light and they're like, alright, the only way out of this, if you eat this entire jar of mayo and down this back down his beard, five minutes. And the commander walked and he was like, stop give him his beret stop it. And then everybody's like, yeah. Anyways, so that's like, that's how it started, you know what I mean? But any who, I digress, it was a great time. I first assignment right and it was just me. I trained hard for 10 months. I was, I was lucky enough one of the guys to actually deploy as you know, PJ3. So a team the, the lead medic and then I did my EL and then TL. So then my three deployments out of there were just like, the progression was like unheard of for folks nowadays. Right. It was like, Hey, you're going to do team member, then you're the EL, then you're the TL, but I still wasn't, wasn't happy for some reason. You know what I mean, like personally professionals don't do a lot, right? I think we've all been there. And I was planning on getting out my 10 year Mark, man. I had, I had application filled out from the Tampa fire department. Like I was like, man, what's next? You know, the whole grass is greener mentality, right. It's got to be something better to do. But now like I was getting out and then my flight chief, Oh Curtis man wheeled and dealed, get me an assignment to England, the mighty 321. So I you go to Nelson or I go to England and I just, I wish I could come like a bottle up those three years. I don't know if you guys feel the same way, but hands down it's 21 years now. And that was like the best assignment. Recently. I mean it was just everybody. The things we've got to do the different JCETs and deployment opportunities as a team. At Curtis retirement it was kind of like a mini reunion. It was just like, man, that was the best three years of my career, but I'm like, man, I want to go back. I just haven't, I've had like that bonding type team since. I love him, talked to him quite often. I mean so that's that. And then I was there from 2009-2012. We're just rambling now. But anyways, so yeah, it was actually on a you know, C/co rotation outs in Stuttgart and just shooting the breeze with this Navy warrant officer. And he's like, Hey man, you guys have you guys have officers? And I was just like, I was like, yeah, but the majority of them are tools. I mean, I'll probably take some flak for that. I don't really care because at the time that was, I do, that's my opinion. I told you, raw and unfiltered. I mean, if you want to put that on replay, like just tools, just tools, you know what I mean? That's how it was, man, because, because seriously, we were, at that time, the career field, the community was only 10 years old. Right. And I think we were still trying to find ourselves trying to find that niche and like what we did, what we did. Nobody really knew that was my opinion, you know what I mean, of a mature drastically since then. So just don't ask my wife. And that was it man. So never really had plans to, to cross over, but the opportunity presented itself and kind of the rest is history, you know what I mean?
Peaches (00:20:33):
What is it that like made you go all right, I am ready to make this transition from enlisted swine to officer?
JMac (00:20:45):
So that man saw it was , yeah, truth be told. I was kind of filling that role has like number three on team, anything. Went in there for a while and then Curtis left, Dwayne, you know, he was there and then he left and then Curtis was like, man, you need to make even make rank, you make Tech. And I'm like, Oh boy, here we go. So it's like put Tech on and they was just like, Hey, I'm the dude and we don't have none of the Master coming in for like the year. And they're like, you're running everything. So that last year there, it was like I was the lead, I was the lead evaluator lead instructor. You know what I mean? It's like, it's almost like when you get the quals, you got the training, you get the great ideas and then you go and you go to fight those battles and advocate for the boys. And certain folks are just like yeah, that's enough out of you. You know what I mean? Great idea. There's the door. We're going to have a big boy discussion. And I'm like, I'm a big boy, dude. I got some weird ideas. I may be high strung, but I guess I got some great ideas. So it was probably that catapulted it. You know what I mean? Like it was just like, well, I want a voice at the table. You know what I mean? And whether or not they're going to offer it to me, I'm going to make them offer it to me. I had seen some other folks that made the leap and I was just like, man, I just don't know you know, the quality of the individual or, you know, I think I could do a better job, you know, just one of those things. I talked over the wife and she was like, try it. It was quite eventually because you know, to basically start over, you know, as back to one of these things where, you know, I don't get into that in a second, but like the initial, you know transition, it was like, I put it in the package. I didn't hear anything and I can get a call from a good buddy of mine, you know, Cole, and he's like, Hey, I'm going to go to phase two. And I'm like, Oh really? He's like, yeah, let's came out. I'm like, Oh, it did. It's like, yeah, your name's not on it. And I'm like, what? I run into the chief at the time. I'm like, Hey man, got a question, this whole, this came out, I'm not on it. And he was like, yeah, they're not letting some levels go, blah, blah, blah. And I was just like, that's BS. Let's dig into this if we can, you know what I mean? And so, you know, did a little digging and you know, after pulling some teeth, you know, the career of a manager, the times like, yeah, we'll let them go. That's it. No more seven levels, you know what I mean? And I get it. You know, it's one of those things, man is always an issue. You know, retainability is always an issue for us. You know, you can look through the cracks, you can look at any unit across the board, right across the entire enterprise. Everybody's hurting for qualified dudes. That's what ended up happening. So I they're like, cool, let's send them and then boom, phase two, let me tell you how bad that sucks.
Aaron (00:24:28):
Hey, let's pause. Let's pause there. Cause we're going to we're going to talk about it, but what did, what did you see like when you were getting ready to cross train, like what did you see you, you said that the career field was young and it was in flux and you, you didn't really know, but you know, you wanted to make a change. So what did you see the role of a CRO being when you were getting ready to cross train? Because that had to play a huge, you had to have some like want to have job satisfaction on the backend. So what did you see the role being?
JMac (00:24:53):
Like I said, it was all of dirty angel. The GAS was a newest, that was, you know, the latest and greatest thing, right? And the whole human weapon system and you know, previously it was all like the RTUs were led by fliers, man. You know what I mean? And the, you know, the CROs were still trying to find themselves and they were just, they were there. They were more of like, I viewed them as like, Hey, they're the mouthpiece for the enlisted guys that never had it before. Right. Cause I don't care who you are, even in today's day and age with all the experience we have in this, in this forum right now, you know that if you're like an E-6/E-7 you have a good idea, but you go into the room, dude, you're going to get voted off the Island by the O-4/O-5 that thinks he or she knows what he's doing. You know what I mean? And the bottom line is they may not. And that's what I and the thing is like when I talking to leadership so many times, so many different people. And the minute I started talking, they're like, dude, this guy's off his rocker and I'm, and I'm looking, I'll look in the corner of the room at the dude being the quiet guy in the corner who's the youngest lowest ranking dude? And I'm like, Hey man, say something. I was like, you've probably got the answer to this problem. But that's what, that's what the problem is like I'm the O-4/O-5 and like I have the answer, beat it, beat it, nerds, get out of here. So I was just kind of like, I want to be that guy that's like, you guys all know me. I'm vocal. I don't hold back. And I figured like, Hey, my personality who I was, I could advocate for change, you know what I mean? And like I said, back to the whole conversation I had with that Navy warrant officer, man, he's like, Hey man, you got a pretty outgoing personality. , you're a lot of respect here from the dudes in the short four or five months. You're, they're like, why don't you go for it? And I was like, yeah, but again, in the back of your mind, it's like I'm established, I've already been around this group for 10 years. I'm qualified. I have put my time in you know, trainer, evaluator, JM, dive sup, do you know what I mean? You name it, it's there. Do I want to start over? You know what I mean?
Trent (00:26:50):
Got to deal with your boys too, right? Cause I mean, I've seen it before. Like your E-6 leaves, he comes back as a second Lieutenant, doesn't make it in today.
JMac (00:27:16):
So yeah, so you know where I'm at, I'm trying to like flows back to the whole like, yeah. Basically hope that answers the question Love right. You know what I mean? Like I just was like, Hey, I can, I can hopefully be it be a dude. It's just try to be the, you know, what the spark that they need. So, and it was, I don't know, I'm not going to say boy was I wrong, but damn. I ate a big old humble cupcake and then yelled at myself while I was running up Hill afterwards.
Brian (00:28:22):
Biggest thing from what I'm listening to, what you're saying is the biggest difference in the roles that you're playing is you want to advocate for the dudes and you wanted to give back to those guys that you had worked with, which are Aaron and I, you know when we showed up on team and you were more of the more senior person, so get back to the community and be able to advocate and do those kinds of things. You weren't specifically looking to be a CRO in that combat scenario because we have a lot of guys that ask us questions about like, you know, are CROs ever going to see combat and is it CRO going to be ever, but you know when I talked to you when you're going that route, it sounded like you all had already kind of decided like, yeah, I'm not going to be the guy that is going down the hoist every time and that kind of stuff. I'm kind of setting in this role as a CRO to do my job and advocate for the dude, use my powers of persuasion to get the things that I think is necessary for the career field.
JMac (00:29:16):
Well you did, you know that better than anybody, man. You're my, you're my TL on that last deployment that we're on. Then you know the arguments I had with the, the opposing team, the personalities, right? Where I'm just like, I said, Hey, I'm breaking free. I'm not going to fly. I'm going to let the young guys fly. Let them get that experience. Let them get that exposure. I'm going to sit back and battle track, do whatever I have to do. The feedback from the young guy, you know, KR and those man, they came back and they were just like, Hey dude, not having you on the helicopter and actually having to have, you know, 360 where with all about what we're doing because we knew you weren't over on the left side or you weren't on the right side, like having our six, it made us have a complete different mindset, you know what I mean? So, and that was just vacation in itself right there. But I'll get into the whole like the whole, you know, deployment and anything like that. But you know, back to the whole like the roles of a CRO, just like any officer's, especially in this whole spec ops community across the board. I don't care what your NAVSPECWAR, MARSOC, USASOC whatever it is, right? Special operations officer, man. Yeah. Advocate and empower. Know that's it. I mean we got just absolute pipe hitters in the enlisted ranks that are just like, don't hold them back. Dude. You know, cattle prod them, support them go. You know what I mean? And you will be absolutely amazed at the amount of talent that's out there. And that's all I want to do. You know what I mean? Like I can wind myself up real easy. Hell, you guys have all done it. I just wanted to empower those pilots and , it basically run interference, you know, because previously I just, in my experience, I'd always seem like, Hey man, great idea, blah, blah, blah. They'll get this for me. No sir. Hey, stand up in front of him and explain why the team that I want to do this. I honestly, I mean, yeah, it was there 50/50. You know, I've had some great officers I've worked for and I've had some bottom of the barrel officers I've worked for. So I just, yeah, man, I just wanted to be that dude to let the, let the boys know that man, I got your best interest in mind and , and I don't care if I get yelled at, you know what I mean? Try and try to go to bat for you. So anyhow, that was that.
Trent (00:32:26):
Well I was just going to I think that's an interesting point because we talk so often about you know, the officers or senior enlisted getting stuck behind the desk and you made the conscious effort to put yourself behind desk and to let your guys go and do, as opposed to thinking about it as, Hey, I'm stuck here. Like I can't believe I have to do all this paperwork and I still want to be the doer. And I know that transition from like the doer to management, at least for me is it was difficult.
JMac (00:32:54):
The desk it's a glorified box. Jump on to be honest with you. And I'll tell you, I'm going to go off on tangents. But dude, I've done that twice, you know as an Instructor the 58th man. The people that I didn't even know and they're like, hey sir, I just got to tell you like you don't remember me because I was like a cone that was a, had just got there and then you did this. And that was the most motivational thing I've ever seen in my life. And I'm like, Hey bro. Cool. You know what I mean? It was just me acting a fool at the time because I was put between a rock and a hard place and I felt like my boys had kind of turned its back on me, so to speak. I can get to that afterwards, but yeah, back to the whole blocks, jump on the desk, Trent. So here's the deal bro. Like I love Tom because it's absolutely serious and I get to Nellis, get ready to do go up. My first training Sortie, needed radio needs antenna needed, the common equipment, right? And I go down there and I'm just the butter bar and I go down to the comm shop and this dude is just like, I'm like, Hey man, how's it going? Blah, blah, blah. I'm just trying to be personal, start a conversation, how's things need a radio and this then the other. And he's like, he just didn't even, it's just like, I didn't even exist. Like you kind of looked up at me. Then it kind of went back to his computer and I was like, I was like, dude, I just find, I found a whole trouble, like a whole schematic just to find this room dude. Like I need your help. And I was like in my back of my mind, I was like, you know what, am I going to handle this professionally or do I just want to get the dudes attention? And I was like, you know what, let's get the dude's attention. So, I sort of box jumped right in his desk, split his keyboard and I'm standing over him. Hey dude, you were like a senior heroin at this time. Like anytime I needed anything from the support folks that day forward, it just happened. It worked. Okay. So there, there's the analogy, the desk is a box, right? You use it how you see fit.
Peaches (00:35:57):
So, as a CRO then like no kidding, just because I haven't been deployed in an operational environment with a CRO as part of my team, what does a CRO do on deployments?
JMac (00:36:14):
Mission specific, right? So some of the information sets and what am I going to do as a CRO? Cause Brian, you touched on earlier like, Oh man, am I going to go see combat? Am I going to do this, that and the other? And it's like you know, what I want to tell them is just like, man, we need to be, you need to be just like any other officer or any other operator in the AFSPECWAR community, just outside the box thinker. You need to realize that you need to, you're going to be like a mission analysis, mission planning guru. Right. Especially in the PR world cause it's so dynamic, right? Especially with this whole new, Strike, Access, Recovery. There's just so many different missions. That's so many things we can do. Whether it's Joint or Combined, whatever have you. Right? And it's just like the CRO. So you know, and this is one of those things where, Hey, for the first year you're going to get out of the pipeline and the first two deployments you do, you're going to do plan of doing at least two deployments at that tactical level, right? You're going to even potentially three, depending on the unit you go to, especially nowadays with the whole 19 Zulu thing. And we'll get into that afterwards. Historically it used to be you come out of the pipeline, you go straight to RQS, you do your team commander upgrades, which about six months to a year. Then you go into that, you fall into that whole JORT cycle. When you deploy your team, come back, rest, repeat, you know, rinse, repeat, ideal and whatever theater you're tasked with that's what you're going to do. And you can be on a rotor wing team, fixed wing team. , and it's just luck of the draw man. You know? And, and we all know in the PR world, our day that we get to shine is like somebody else's, the worst day of their life. And you never know what's going to happen. Then afterwards, you know, like I said, back into that whole like be the master thinker, right? The master planner, master analyzer, whatever have you, because you're going to do either JPRC rotation, PRCC rotation. And the thing about this community, it's so, it's so small that man, as long as you're vocal and you let the leadership know, when you communicate effectively on what you want, what your desires are, there's a pretty good chance that you can have the opportunity to do it. You know what I mean? Like there's, granted there's some manning shortfalls everywhere, but now I'm hearing dudes that I helped put through the pipeline and phase two and stuff and they're, they're already coming back on their like third deployment and there, it's like they're a been a deployed commander on her third deployment and I'm like, man, you know what I mean? So you just never truly know, but Hey man, just like giddy up, you know what I'm saying? So just know that you can do it. It's just a multitude of things.
Peaches (00:38:50):
JMac, when you, when you say two to three deployments that a CRO gets where they actually get the some like what amount of time is that? Not the length of the deployments, but you know, from a time on team that a CRO arrives, how many years do they get on team before they are, have the go to school for officer development or become more leadership positions?
JMac (00:39:14):
You know, you're looking at you know, when you pin captain on. So some guys finished the pipeline and a year and a half, some finish it in two, right? You come out of the pipeline and you're a first Lieutenant, you're going right into team commander upgrades. Six months to a year, you get your first deployment as a first Lieutenant, right? You're coming back, you're probably depending on captain getting ready to have the door from your second deployment. I talked about that tactical level to plan a ride. So that's just like, you're, you're, you're in there and you're repping, you're advocating for those enlisted pipe hitters on team. Like Brian and I were, he was my TL for my two years, my two deployments as a pro at Nellis man. And we just you're in sync with each other and it's just like, Hey man, here's your line. Here's my lane. We're running parallels and we're just going to crush life together. There's certain things that like, Hey man, you handle that and make sure the team's squared away. I'm going to go fight this other fight over here and just try to get what we need to get. Whether it's, you know, some other funding stuff, you know, dealing with the budget, you know, you know what I mean? And I know because I have that trust with Brian and trust with the TL that he's going to handle the other stuff. I can just come in and say, who's ready to rock? You know what I mean? Like I know they're ready to go. You're just, you know, it's depending on what cycle you're on, whether it's 24 on 24 off, 12 on, 12 off, wherever rotational basis you have. And it's just like restaurants repeat of like, you know, you're doing a whole Intel briefs, you know, what's going on in theater, what's the most, you know current events and where's the hotspots? Trent, you alluded to like that, I love that time because like, yeah, not behind a desk man, I'm with the boys and you're still hyper focused on just making you yourself, you know, you're making yourself and your team better becoming more tactically proficient at that tactical level. Right. Because you know that the operational assignments right around the horizon. So if that helps man, you know what I mean? If that answer helps answer the question but what they can plan on and I can, new signed, sealed, delivered, JMac said it, you know, throw spears afterwards, graduate in the pipeline plan you're going to do a couple years, you know, at least two tactical deployments if not more depending on assignments, you know, and they're like I said, there's 19Z that just came out. Like now the guys are going to show the pipeline to ST units. I don't know how they're being utilized. I can't speak to that right now.
Aaron (00:41:41):
I got a flight commander CRO there, one of the, one of the troops up at , the place where I work has a PJ troop chief and a CRO commander. So it's, it's happened and there, there are CROs down range from STS is right now on global access and strike and recovery troops that are, that are doing good work. So the aperture is wide open, wide open for what you can do. So it's really diverse. Yeah, you're totally right.
Peaches (00:42:15):
That's all I want to know because we get a lot of those questions anyway about Hey, as an officer coming in, whether you're doing the enlisted to officer or you're just coming in and straight officer, how much team time do I actually get? Because I think a lot of them get sold a story that Hey, you're going to be kicking in doors and you're going to be doing the mission even as an officer. And I hate to tell people whenever they, you know, they think that way. It's like Hey yes you will for a couple of years and then you've got to move on to go take care of the guys.
Aaron (00:42:49):
Well, because there's different missions and it's a really hard thing to try to explain to people when people are like, Oh well you know how long am I going to get to do this before I get stuck behind the desk. Man, you're not stuck behind. Some of the best things that have ever happened for this career field happened because people put down the gun and picked up the desk and made great things happen for all of our career. Feels like it's a necessary thing that we have to do. And it's a hard thing to explain to young hard chargers that just want to go out there and they want to be on target all the time. And that target in that battle space changes.
Trent (00:43:44):
Speaking of questions that we have to ask and we have to say it in the way that is asked a hundred times, no matter what we say about it, it's in the same vein. Like day to day life was a CRO, right? No matter what we say about it, unless we hit it with every single AFSC or career field that comes on here, unless we ask specifically you right now, JMac, can you tell us in Garrison?
JMac (00:44:13):
0700-0900 PT. 0900 Stand up. If I get one more link to a Zoom meeting. I'm going to just start beating things with a baseball bat gang. That, that, that, that, that not am stand up turns into a nine 30 discussion, which turns into a 10 o'clock to a 12 o'clock , Koa development on why we discuss what we discussed at the nine o'clock and then I'm like three o'clock, which has happened. What do you want to know? I don't even know if I put a uniform on. Is that Garrison wound up the rest of the day?
Aaron (00:45:06):
This is obviously the best possible answer we've ever gotten. We get, we get this question so much and no matter how many times people are like so we thought we would just cover it all in the beginning and be like, alright, what's it like in Garrison for Special Warfare? And people are still like, Oh I want to be a CRO. Can you tell me what the day to day is like? And we're just like, Oh man. But this is the best answer I've ever heard.
JMac (00:45:26):
It varies based on personality dude. Like I literally, my day it starts off just like I said, I'm not going to lie and I check my email and then like, dude, I'll be lucky to get halfway through the inbox because I don't like, here's the deal with me. Like, I'll shoot you an email, but as last resort. Okay. Cause I'm going to call you first. Now I'm going to pay a visit in person if you're geographically located near me. And then if I still can't get ahold of you, then I'll shoot you an email and tell you I'm going to follow it up with a phone call and another visit. Right? Like I'm like, I'm going to close that loop and you're going to be like, this dude is just annoying because yeah, the desk is there, but it's just there. It doesn't have to hold you back, man. You got to get out, you got to get out. You got to talk to the folks, you got to handle business. You got to check the morale, the welfare because I'll tell you, man, like that whole like, Oh, Garrison CRO thing. People were like, Oh, that's the officer man. He's squared away. He knows everything. Dude, you have no idea. Personally, professionally, do you talk about, you sprinkling the family love, you, sprinkle in everything else that's going on, dude. And you just, I remember that as a young enlisted dude, I was like, Oh, the officer has all the answers dude now that I'm living that life and I have those conversations with the O-5/O-6s and they're just like, dude, I have no idea what I'm doing when I grow up
Aaron (00:46:39):
This is the comment that I'm going to make right now and I understand how scary it is. JMac, when we say that we need an adult because we all say that you're the adult, you're the person now that we're talking about when we say I need an adult and someone's like, Aaron, you are an adult. I'm like, no, I need an adultier adult. You're the adult here.
Brian (00:47:06):
Bottomline from what you're saying though, I wholeheartedly agree with what you're saying with not sending an email right away and expecting an answer because it's the same thing with any other agency that you work with. If you send an email, you don't know if you're going to get a response back or people will click through it and like, eh, whatever. I don't feel like getting to it right now and if you're there in person, not only do you get to see the person that you're talking to, they know that you're right there. You can see that they're receiving the message and you can get it to them and say, Hey, I told you last week I was at your desk and you told me that you're going to do XYZ and only X is done. Whereas the rest of the stuff that you said you were going to get done.
JMac (00:47:41):
Here's how the Air Force worst man off of checklists and if you send an email up, I fired and I forgot I did it, Sir. It's done. Oh, you did, man. You send that email and you CC'd a hundred thank you. Thank you. Let me go your mess because you're an idiot. Yeah.
Aaron (00:48:05):
All right man. We're all right. We're going to reel it way. We're going to read the way back. Okay. So we paused on it earlier, but I want to get into it now. So let's talk phase two stuff, right? So I want you to talk about, so two big things I want you to talk about. Mark my words. I don't care if he gets me fired from every single thing that we do. That is the Instagram post for this podcast. Congratulations you're screensaver to motivate you. It put it on the group chat. Now we need that. So, Hey, so phase two. So two questions. Two focuses here. Number one, how was it and what was your experience? And then number two, knowing that experience and then knowing what you know now, how would you have prepared for it back in the day?
JMac (00:49:06):
all the time, man, it boils down to this like one week gut-check that is it. You know what I mean? Like that whole, I don't even know what I'll probably screw up. I say like the whole three days. What is that? Three days without sleep. Three days without water, whatever that crap is like did man, one week gut check, right? The hardest part of phase two is phase one is just crossing your T's, dotting your I's, getting your paperwork in. And like people were like, they spent all this time on his narrative because I don't know how many people mess it up. And then that's what it is. If you, if you were, you know, cross your T's and dot your I's on your phase one package and you're authentic, you're genuine. I'm not hiring, we're not hiring a dude or a girl because what they say they are on paper. You know what I mean? Like, man, you be yourself and that's all the time people are like, I get this interview. What do I say to the board? Just on the other thing. It's like, be yourself, man. Don't try to tell the board the answer that you think they want to hear because you really don't have a clue. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, you Googled it. You Wikipedia. Oh, I need to talk about this. Then the other thing
Aaron (00:50:16):
As an instructor, you can tell 100% when a student pivots away from the question that they're supposed to answer and breaks into a life story, you're like, Hey, what's two plus two? And the people are like, Oh, sorry, the two plus two is, I remember that I learned this from my impoverished childhood and it taught me to be a better person and to never quit.
JMac (00:50:40):
Wrong, wrong. It was for get out another, sharpen your Swiss Army knife. So here's the deal, man. Like I'll fall back to that. But like back to the whole, I get you out. You're asked a question man. Like there's this guy that I mentored, he's, he's lost me in the pipeline. Now I'm at phase two. I'm sitting on the board and I look at his background and it's like, did he has his like top of his class chemistry. I'm like, dude, this dude's wicked smart. Okay, let's have some fun. I'm just, this is how Jay Mack thinks, you know, the board's far away asking questions like this. And there was just like, okay, around the room. Does anybody have any questions? You know, couple of chiefs, a couple captains, colonels sitting in the middle. I didn't tell anybody else about the fire off on this cause I had just took him, took him to the Google machine, right. I looked at him square in the eyes and said, I got one question for you. I said, Ken, it's so and so. I was like, what's the atomic weight of neon? And he, and he was just like, I don't know. I pulled it out and he was just like he, he tried to throw something out there. Actually, he was on it. He was like, I don't know, like he was just baffled and it was the lab mothers didn't like, they were like, Hey, that's it. And then there was like stoic, and then he walked out and like the room erupted and they were like, periodic table, are you? I'm like, Hey man, I want to see the dude's true character. Right. So any who, I digress back to the whole thing, right. , I thought that was funny that you guys did whatever. The anxiety and the buildup getting ready to go to phase two. And it's back to the whole, like, this is for anybody. Just say straight up, I'm a sophomore in college, junior in college, and get ready to go to it. Or I'm a product, most of dude, whether it's in the community with your brothers growing up, you know, for a decade plus.
Aaron (00:52:41):
Or civilians now, even civilians off the street, that's a great program that they're running is bring them in off the street for a civilian.
JMac (00:52:47):
And they're hilarious cause they don't have, they don't have a clue. A funny, it's so funny to watch. But , yeah, I mean I showed up and like I go back to the one week gut check because I knew it was going to suck. I had talked to talk to the guys who'd been previously till 25 of us showed up. There were a 14 ROTC or enlisted guys and 11 commissioned officers and I'm like, sweet, who's going to lead the charge? Blah blah blah. And there was this Army captain in charge and this is hilarious because I don't even know how I'm here. Let me just tell you that, like the things I've pulled, like I should've had my throat slit and been like thrown in the trench. The things I did, but like I'm just like, Oh, this, so this Army captain...
Aaron (00:53:43):
Somebody poop in your kid poop in your kitchen. Somebody should put an old, an old yogurt in your dry suit and then roll it up and then put it in your case. That's what they should do. Find it after eight months. They should. That was all months later. That was the most disgusting thing I've ever smelled in my life. And they're still growing roots and we still were. You still wore a dressing and that wasn't the worst thing to happen in a dry suit. That trip, by the way. I'm not talking about that. So while there, Brian, anyways, so mixer.
JMac (00:54:17):
So yeah. Anyways, back to the whole anyway. So I get there day one, minute is cat Army captain just, I was just like looking at this dude as a Tech Sergeant and I was like, this dude doesn't even know how to spell Army, let alone going to lead this, this group of dudes through the selection. Right. Obviously he hired a tutor to do his phase one package cause he got accepted. So it was rough man. Like I knew what to expect and , basically he was started on a Sunday, the PAST test and running, you run into the whole, the whole gamut. And by Tuesday, I mean it was such a beat down that by Tuesday we were down to seven people. So that was all non-commission officers had quit. We were down, you know, just to, it was three prior PJs and two Academy guys and two ROTC guys at that point. It was just like, what is going on? You know what I mean? And it was, it was pretty much, he was like a rough week for me, you know, and I'll show some vulnerability here and I'll just open up to you guys in the eye. It's cause I tell him just to give you an idea you know, I can smoke joke and laugh right now, but I'll tell you like the worst week of my life. It was there, it's not the worst. It ranks up there pretty high and it was Wednesday morning after like you know, it was a, the long run day man. I was just like, I was sick for starters. So I was, you know, going from traveling from England all the way to Spokane, Washington just beat down from just very little sleep and you know, just like I was dragging and I finished that run way behind the guys. I was just down on myself down in lock you back to the room, happened to call my wife and I was like, babe, I actually had like, I was like self-doubt at that time. I was like, maybe I don't know if I can do this. You know what I mean? And thank God for her cause she was, she was just like she's like, yeah, whatever. That's cool because , you got a newborn son and a three year old daughter who already made the best dad signs for you when you get home. Next thing I know I'm going into the hell week and I get two large bore IVs and I'm just like, where am I? And I mean it was, it was rough, but looking back, man, like I get it. I understand why, you know what I mean? Like it's a gut check. Do you really want it? You know what I mean? Because in the previous past it was just like, Oh, Hey, you're enlisted Controller, you're enlisted PJ you want to be an officer. I mean, you can be a completely horrible person and you know, here's this, here's a shiny hat and this new rank and go do, right. Like, I think it's a valid, valid gut check to make sure, Hey, you really want to do this, do you really want to go down this road?
Aaron (00:56:56):
Just to pause you real quick and I don't want to throw you on a tangent, but did, did that sort of experience like you, you come out of that and you'd go and Hey, this is totally valid. Did that shade you're kind of like future to go work there. Is that what kind of made you want to be involved so heavily in that process because you valued it.
JMac (00:57:15):
So I mean, you guys know me pretty well, my daughter, right? I mean EFMP and , my entire life right now, career assignments, whatever have you, it completely evolved around her and her care and the ability for me to take care of her and give her the opportunity she needs to excel or whatever in life and everything. I was just icing whatever I can do, you know? So that assignment was like, man, I need a pause-ex after 10 years of just being an enlisted PJ and the CRO at that tactical level and just averaging 220 plus days a year have gone whether it was deployments, TDYs, whatever I needed to be there for the wife, I need to be there for the family. We needed to pause-ex personally. And Fairchild was just the assignment because Seattle was there, the neurologist, it was just a great assignment and it just happened to be that phase two is there. And then I ran with it and it was, it was a great experience.
Aaron (00:58:06):
How would you prepare for phase two? So no one like, yeah. Well how would you, you came out, you had to have IVs. You almost didn't make it. You were at your lowest point. Like looking back on that, like how, how would you prepare for it then? What advice would you give to somebody going to phase two to be like, Hey, this is what you need to focus on.
JMac (00:58:22):
Sleep deprivation hits like you wouldn't believe. You know what I mean? It's like, I always do this off, I'll make what I'll do and this is like bad on me. Maybe, I don't know, my coach probably hates me for it, but I'll, I'll like, I'll make these workouts and I'm like, that looks dumb on paper and I'll start doing it and I'm like one round and I'm like, Oh, this is really dumb. And like 30 something minutes later, I'm just like dead. And I'm like, I got three rounds left. It's a grind. I mean that's it. Bottom line is like, man, like whether there's so many resources out there, but like find a grind and just do it, dude. You know what I mean? And then do it tired and then you know, do it dehydrated. And then, do you know what I mean? Just like, and just know what it feels like, you know? And it's just like when you have nothing left, you'll find a Hill and sprint up it as fast as you can. And like I said, I fall back to the whole mental, it's 90 plus percent mental, you know, and running phase two now. And I have these dudes, I look at their phase one package and it's like, Oh, I'm a D one swimmer, I'm a captain of the water polo team. Let me tell you, you know how you fit. You have to be to be, you know, a collegiate water polo player. And then I got up and he quits on underwater and I'm like, dude, it's here man. Like I'm not this D-1 professional athlete dude, but man I will you give me a warehouse full of stuff. I'm going to move it for you. I don't know how fast it's going to happen but I'm going to move it or I'm going to motivate others to help me move it.
Brian (00:59:50):
Yeah, I think, I think that's really an important part. Like you're talking about, you guys have to experience those people that are watching, listening out there. You have to experience what failure feels like over and over again. And I integrated that stuff into like, you know the workouts that I designed because I designed it for specifically that kind of thing. And it's the crucible days that are the toughest ones that like pretty much goes through a really tough day at selection or whatever going, doing bear crawls, going through a long ruck, going through freaking long water concessions. Like you see 4,000 meters on a swim and you're like, I've never done that much before. And you just do it. You sit there and however long it takes you, you freaking get it done because you can get it done. It's just how motivated are you going to be? And it's going to be the same thing when you go to selection. Like, are you going to be motivated enough?
JMac (01:00:39):
Eventually you're going to be going to dive school, do a 10K and you're not going with pee when you're finning. So your buddy's going to have to drag you. You know what I mean? Like it's, it's, it's going to happen. So but yeah, man, that's it. It's funny because I really attribute the fact that I played high school football to it, that mental toughness of two days, things like that. Right. And then, and then having prior experience in the community. Just knowing, because what I always talk when I talk leadership mentorship with anybody, cause I'm like, so many people don't attempt it because they're so fear. They're so afraid of failure before they even attempt certain things. You know what I mean? I don't know. I'm not going to be a statistic guy and throw it out there, but like my personal opinion, dude, like 80%-90% people in this world have no idea what they're capable of. You know what I mean? Like, we could all admit there, we've talked to people, they're like, Oh, I just haven't started school. I just don't know if I can do it. Man, it's long. Or man, I don't, you know, and it's just one of those things where, you know, I met you get sick and tired of hearing it. You know? I remember the first time I met my wife's coworker, you know, he was a chaplain's assistant, you know what I mean? And the first time I meet this dude, I walk in and, you know, she's like, be nice. We're still dating, right. And I'm just like, hey man. Nice to meet you. He's like, Oh, you're a PJ. And I'm all like, yeah, and what's the first thing that comes out of his mouth? Anybody want to get, I could have made it if I was going to do it. And I was like, I think I said something along the lines of shut up. And then I got swift backhand. We're in a chapel, blah, blah blah. And I'm like, like, try it. You know what I mean? Try it and then say something because you'd be surprised, dude. It's not, I mean, you guys can attest, you get big yoked dude, he's got the eight pack and that the 16 inch biceps, you know, like I'll crush rocks. Okay dude, but watch out for that 120 pounds, which I'll put 120 pound kid or whatever cause he's going to run circles around you. And he's, he's got more mental and intestinal fortitude than you can even dream about. And now that's all it boils down to. So hopefully that sums it up, man. But like, that was awesome. But for me to be going through and having my buddies, I mean one of the dudes that was on team with going through the apprentice course was just, yeah, I was just staring at his shins all the time doing pushups and I'm just like, man, I used to hold your hair out of the toilet and listen to you complain about you not being good enough to this world. And it's like, now I'm doing burpees for you dude. Like, like they pick and choose and they just give you these unattainable timelines and that's what people get so stressed out about it. But just like handle it. If you fail one task, there's, there's many more coming. You know what I mean? Like, did the decision is not going to be weighed on you at phase two? , the fact, the simple fact that you were invited to phase two, did you, we need you. We want you. You know what I mean? I've been to phase two briefs were where the cadre the O-5/O-6 comes in and says, Gents we got 24 candidates, we need 22. I mean, it's like, what do we end up passing six? It has not because we don't want to. It's like, yeah, we're going to, we're going to test your mental intestinal fortitude. We're going to test your IQ. We're going to put you through the rigors button. At the end of the day, it's like, we want you, we need you. We invited you. So it's one of those things, man.
Aaron (01:03:59):
Well, and man, I said this, I don't know how many times is my instructor when I was an instructor when I was, you know, down at school and I'm sure Brian did too. Like that's one big misconception. Every one of us, an AFSPECWAR every single instructor, almost to a man wants you to succeed. How happy would you have been if you invited 24 and you graduated 24 from that phase two, what would that have felt like?
JMac (01:04:20):
Great, but at the same time, like, and you've been there, you've been there with phase II, Brian has too. You see it and, and do I like I'm that guy that's like, Hey man, I'm going to mentor, develop you. But at the same time, like I would tell you this, for those listeners out there getting ready to go, if I'm there and I give you options, did take the road less traveled, take something you're not familiar with, offer you some punishment, and I'm going to say, Hey man, like you complete this task and you can have a hand day and I'm going to offer you a hundred pushups or 100 mind benders, man. Choose the mind benders. So hopefully that sums it up, man, a little bit. Call me. I'll get you ready to eat some pizza, run some Hills together while we talk trash to each other.
Peaches (01:05:44):
Well JMac, would you do it all over again knowing what you know now?
JMac (01:06:11):
Heartbeat in a heartbeat. And you know, and I, it's one of those things where I just love being part of this community and if I could tell everybody that's aspiring to do it, you know what I mean? There's, Oh man, there's movers and shakers, dude. But this community is full of both and it's crazy, dude. And I just, you know, near, I'm over 20, almost at 21 years right now. And people are like, I meet people that are just like, I call them, you know, the regular Air Force folks that don't do spec for like us or aren't familiar with our community. And they're just, I mean, there, there's tech sergeants at 19 years are masters at 19 or 20. They're just beat down. And then I talked to him, I'm like, haven't been for over 20 and they're like, are you serious? And I'm like, and then I'd say like, yeah, and I'm just getting started. And they're like, what? You know what I mean? And I'm just like, I don't want it to end, you know what I mean? Because whether it is on a team or whether it is behind a desk or whether it's, do you know what I mean? Like, I love it. I don't care. You're going to have good days, bad days. You know, the other days, no matter what you do. But man, boy, are we lucky. I think we all know it. You know what I mean? I just, I just have looked back to a time where I'm like, Hey, they needed to get a JM currency for one dude. I'm the only current qualified JM and Oh by the way, we're going to fly C-17 and just do a couple of elevators. And then you're like, pinch me. Is this real and entire C-17 just to myself, just to throw one guy out.
Trent (01:08:16):
So you're, you're just getting started. So moving forward, I guess looking into the future, the whole 19Z thing, the officer AFSC is within Special Warfare from where you're sitting. Where's it going? What's the deal? , positives. , you know, what are your thoughts?
JMac (01:08:39):
I love it. I absolutely love it. So doing away with 13...
Aaron (01:08:42):
We do to man, just to, just to focus you on like where we are. Like we are early adopters of this thing. We are, we are totally on board, man. Like we were pumped.
JMac (01:08:51):
Yeah, dude. So I love it. And I, and I get that the buzzwords are running rampant nowadays with this whole thing, you know? Even with the whole 1Z, that was back in October finally became a thing. Right. , I think it's great. I think this whole SPECWAR enterprise, the whole SPECWAR movement and the bottom line is, is this, you know, I'll try to speak intelligently. That's, I can't hear, but like for the first time ever, we actually have a director at the HAF level. I mean, that is absolutely huge. The fact that we have at A3S, you know, up at the HAF, SPECWAR umbrella that is just like guiding our, our development is huge. You know what I mean? So I think getting rid of the whole you know, with the 19Z, so taking those and the 13C/13D/13L. Taking those out of that command and control AFSC and assigning us, you know, as of April 30th having our own you know, AFSPECWAR AFSCs I mean the opportunities are endless and granted there's going to be some growing pains. Like I said, this, the opportunity, like I said, the biggest why I'm really excited about this and where I see this going in the future is just like I said, back to whole likeminded individuals, extremely motivated men and women right across the board. But the fact that we can now you know, through the AFPC eyes, right, that we can cross pollinate so we can, we can throw these STOs into RQSs. We can still use the CROs into, you know, STS and fill these leadership roles and the TACPOs as well. They formally work in, you know what I mean? And it's just like, I know for a fact that at PACAF one of my buddies is leaving these CRO, a TACPO is going to go that position, you know what I mean? And like I said, that the whole buzzword cross pollination, it's absolutely huge and the synergies that are going to be available for us, even though we didn't merge with AFSOC, like I said, dude, the opportunities for training the employment, you know, everything is going to be huge. And , but like I said, it's going to take time. So I just, you know, it was one of those like as, as the whole desk jockey, you know, cards may fall like I spent from this past was it March anyway, I spent about three weeks helping, there was 17 and 18 of us in this zoom WebEx thing, and we did the 19Z CFETP right. People are just like, no email comes out. They're like, I don't want anything to do with that. You know what I mean? And then anything to do with the development of it. Right. Because you get so that's so crazy to me. It's hard work. You got so many hardheaded individuals that are like, Oh man, this is, this is going to be insane. But what you have is, you know, the history of it is you have three compartmentalize communities that for the first time ever, and let me tell you this, are dumping it onto a spreadsheet and then you know, I had my doubts. I was like, Hey, I'll be your huckleberry. I'm going to do this and rep the FTU where I'm at now. A couple of people were like, dude, good luck with that. I had been called to do down at AETC and I was like, Hey bro, don't think this is going to work via a WebEx via a virtual thing. This is the type of thing that we actually need to sit in a room together and a U shaped table, pull out the shock knives and get some before we start because that's what you know. That's what's going to happen. And So it was originally took, it was late for five days and it took close to a, when it was all said and done close to a 16 or 17 and now it's just waiting for adjudication. But this is huge because like I said, it's, it's, it's a whole, you know, encompasses the whole entire 19Z one document, you know, common skills, core tasks, the whole nine. And, and if you look at the FMPs man, it's just like the ability that we can just be under this one group is huge. You know what I mean? So, and I'm excited for it.
Brian (01:12:51):
It's important because guys that aren't communicating with each other, I mean that's how our team rooms always were, is like this team is in here. They don't really talk too much to this other team that's next door to them. Even though they're doing pretty similar things when they're training, they don't really talk to each other. So if you can get everyone on the same page and not only use your fundings together, but also use your brainpower and your planning assets that you have to go one direction and actually facilitate those movements that you're going to be going across the boards. And I think it's really a great thing. And those guys that aren't actually wanting to be on board, you know, that's just dodging work because we know this is going to happen and we have an opportunity to make it better than it has been in the past and allow our career field to grow to the way it should, you know, and highlight.
Aaron (01:13:37):
People have this misconception like that we all talk and we all constantly work together. I was on the other troop when you two were on 2 Troop in Vegas. I had no idea what you were doing. And we worked in the same building in the other end of horseshoe. They ever saw, you hardly ever saw you guys. I distinctly remember walking past JMac in the hallway one day after you guys got back from deployment. He was whistling. He was like, Hey, what's up Aaron? I was like, Hey, what's up sir? That was the first time I'd seen him in like a year. And we worked in the same building and it was, England was the same way.
Brian (01:14:03):
Yeah. And no one brought us together. We didn't have, we didn't know what they were doing, what TD wise they were going on. We didn't know if they had a new guy, unless you saw them in the hallway or up in cages. We were like, who's that dude walking down the hallway and his boxers.
JMac (01:14:16):
I hope that answered the question. Trent. , you know, I can, I can talk all day, but , you know, is huge. And like I said, we have, we have that rep now up at HAF and there's a lot of things coming down. So, and it was funny because I actually got dimed out last October, September, October timeframe. And they , the career fair manager reached out to my commander and said, Hey man, I need a JMac type to run this GA, this summit thing. And I'm like, Oh, I guess I'm doing it. So clear my schedule. It was awesome. It was first time ever. We had maybe we had the whole night and we had TACPOs, STOs, CROs across the board from total force guard reserves, active, AFSOC. I mean there was a SERE guys there. Everybody's represented all his shots and it was a one week conference didn't we got, we got after it and we got some things up there that completely just , in supportive you know, national defense strategy, everything. It was great.
Trent (01:16:30):
I might just switch that you said anemometer. I'm just going to give you a 1W0X2 AFSC right now. You're in.
Brian (01:16:37):
Last word for you, JMac. , I just want you to do like in one sentence or two sentences. Like what would you tell a guy? One piece of advice that you would give to a guy or a girl that's trying to get in and do this thing.
JMac (01:17:06):
If you're jumping with Peach and he's eight and he's the primary JM and you are the AJM and you do not see the PI because the clouds are at 5,000 and the commander says it's a flickering red to green, just go. What's the worst that can happen? 50% breaks backwards faster than God knows how, you know, and all of a sudden 800' hundred feet, you break through the clouds and you're like, ha, but the best part, you know, and you're walking down, you're like, hey Peach that was good. And he's like, that was, that was legit. I did a Gator, I don't even know what happened and that, and then the commander of the Squadron is sitting on the ramp, not doing that again. And you're just like, yeah, but not man, like, so, so back to the whole. I already lost the bet there, but I'm a one liner. It's the team room. I'm loving it. I've missed you guys. But so just one or two liner to tell people about this, about CRO?
Brian (01:18:16):
What advice you would give them as they're going in and stepping up or they're on that gunnel. You know, something that you thought about as you were about to do 10 ups.
JMac (01:18:27):
Maybe the worst day of your life, and you can be coming down on yourself and you have no idea, but you are capable. You know what I mean? Like and you have what it takes because the simple fact, and this is what it boils down to, the simple fact, and this is going to get kind corny, professional here, but again, the simple fact that each and every one of us raised our right hand sports on the constitution, United States of America against all enemies, foreign domestic dude, you have to take, you already are putting yourself above and beyond what the, your peers that you grew up with are doing because they didn't raise the right hand and already, you know, swore an oath like you did. You've already got a leg up man. Now you've chosen to go a little bit further and test your mind a little bit more and you are capable because if you want to do it, you can do it. You just don't know that yet. Does that make sense? I don’t know. Hopefully it helps somebody out there
Aaron (01:19:20):
And that JMac is what we call an Instagram soundbite. I don't know man. I'm telling you. I mean it's going to be tough to decide between. It's going to be tough. That shaming. I don't even care about that JMac, that was some of the men again man, like I've known you for a long effing time at this point, man. I thank you. That was, that was great because I'll tell you too. Well
JMac (01:19:41):
I mean to circle back on it like we joke at phase two right? It's, it's a, it's a nightmare of a week man, but like it was back to whole, like you said, Hey, how awesome would it be to have 24 dudes or now show up and graduate or select all 24 right? I sit there and yeah, I'm going to test you, but at the same time I'm going to mentor you. So, when I'm, I'm going to just, I'm going to yell at you a little bit, but I'm also, I'm going to, you know, that's where I was going back all week long. And yeah, when you're in that lean and rest on the edge of the pool, when you're just like, man, I don't know if I can do one more 10-up. I don't know if I can do one more over and back. I don't know if I can do this. Do you meet your underwater? I'm going to be in your ear and I'm going to be like, Hey man, you can, you can do this. And I'm that instructor and I'm that Connor that's telling you, Hey man, when you start dumping halfway through a 50 keep going and man, you've got another 45 seconds in yet. So you pass out, keep cupping. You know what I mean? And I have, I love it cause some of those psych docs are like, all of a sudden a doodle pop like two in a row. And then all of a sudden like, I'll get down on whisper something, a little motivation. Next thing you know, it's like they knock out four in a row in a psych docs. Like, Hey underwater whisper, what are you doing? Send it.
Brian (01:21:00):
Alright. Yeah, I think that is fantastic advice and I think that's a good place to end the episode. JMac, I appreciate you coming on and spreading some knowledge. Like I said, we've known each other for a really long time and you know, we all love you a lot. , but just like you said, for all of you guys that are watching out there listening, the biggest thing that you can glean from this whole thing is that you have to be yourself. Just like JMac is always going to be himself and we all know JMac very well and we know that he's going to be himself. And that's why we invited him on here because it is really important to see like no matter what, if you think that you have the odds stacked against you're a fat kid, you have an appetite of always want to eat pizza or whatever. You don't want to be on a diet, you still have to get the job done. And if it's a thing that you really want to do, you have to prove to yourself that you can do it. And the first step to doing that is actually getting off your butt and starting that journey. That's always the hardest step. You know, you hear that all the time, but those are the big things that I think you should take with you when you go into selection. Just like JMac said, take that first step and keep on going. As far as the CRO thing and the phase two it's a grind and you can expect that it's going to be a grind. And like JMac said, it's the hardest part of his life. And he had been through selection and he'd been through team with us and smoke sessions at the unit. So lots of different things. But the thing that keeps you going is, like I said, his family and what really is going to be down here in your heart is not, you know, you can train your butt off and you can get up to eight miles and you can do whatever, but there's always going to be a surprise. Just like he threw out the whole periodic table thing. You can't plan for every single thing. We're trying to see how you're going to react in a situation that you are unfamiliar with and what you are actually made out of. So no matter how much you continue to plan for everything, you can't, it's impossible. You need to come as prepared as possible for you know that a rock is going to come. You know that a run is going to come. You know, all those things that are on the PAST test and that are going to be told to you for your phase II to get ready for. But it's those odds and ends that you just got to be yourself. And we want a person that is confident, is going to tell us a straight up answer like I have no idea what you're talking about or this is what I think and then be a team player. Watch out for your guys. So if you're looking to go the CRO route, you can expect to go through that phase two selection process. And again, another important thing that we covered was talking about you're going to do two, maybe three deployments as a CRO and then you can expect that your job is going to be to advocate for those guys and not to be the guy that's stealing someone's seat. Just like we were talking about our last deployment with JMac and I, you know, he wasn't taking anybody to see, he knew that his role was better served back at the JOC or the stock or the talk and taking care of all the other things that the team doesn't need to worry about while they're out executing the mission. So I think it was awesome to hear from you and I'm glad you're doing great out there. Continuing to crush things and crush yourself. Maybe we can throw a Viking workout or something for the guys to do and I think they would enjoy that. But we all appreciate you coming on here and talking about your experiences. Very valuable for those students out there. So we'd love to have you on again. For now though, you guys continue to comment and they can reach you at @CRO_MC on Instagram. And do you have an email?
JMac (01:24:26):
DM me or yeah, I'll just throw it out there man PJJMac@Gmail.com. Not going to change it, so don't even say it. Thanks for coming on today man. I appreciate it man, cause I'm going to be honest with you. Alright, cool.
Brian (01:24:53):
Appreciate you coming on and thank you guys for listening to make sure you subscribe, like, and drop down the comments. You can hit this up anytime you need anything. All right. Take care. See you. See you. , on Monday there Sir.
TLDR: Be yourself. Pursue your passion. Don’t let failure be the end. Be like JMAC.
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